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AK Design Collaborative - Insignia-Class Economy Speakers (a.k.a Indignia)

Not very efficient little guys I'm afraid. When I first started listening to them it was kind of late at night. I recall wanting to up the volume, as they sounded quite nice. Right now it is a more respectable hour and I have the volume up a wee bit. The meters are showing peaks of about 12-15 watts :yikes: and this is not anywhere near my "for God's sake turn it down" level.

I decided to put the ADS L810 back in the configuration to see how the volume compared. I would say 2 watts into the ADS was comparable to the 12-15 watt peaks in the Indignias. That would put them on an order of magnitude of about 2.5, 7 or 8 db less efficient than the ADS, correct?

I have power options with plenty of headroom so the efficiency isn't a 'problem' here, but it has lowered my appreciation for them a little bit.


Any thoughts on what their melting point might be?
 
Tiver said:
I have power options with plenty of headroom so the efficiency isn't a 'problem' here, but it has lowered my appreciation for them a little bit.

Any thoughts on what their melting point might be?
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Indignias are "personal scale" speakers. If you want to rock the house with them, you'll have to mate them with a sub and highpass them as satellites.

According to the woofer spec, they're 84 dB efficient. That's how Hoffman's Iron Law is applied to give Indignias their remarkable bass response in such a small package.... :thmbsp:
 
Tiver, let them burn in for a spell and they smooth out even more. I respect your observations and it's what you hear and experience that counts.

They are definitely not the most efficient sounding speakers I own but they are certainly some of the most enjoyable. Non-fatiguing, "play it all day kind of sound." Plus, they do surprise you sometimes with great imaging and amazing bass considering their size. Female voices are particularly nice too.

While I own "better" speakers, Indignias have become my speakers of choice for everyday listening. That's pretty high praise in my book. I helped a friend build a pair yesterday and it was exciting to see how impressed their new owner was.
 
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Zilch said:
Are your Indignias running yet, Fisherdude? :banana:
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Got all the cab stuff in. I'm in the process of rearranging my basement workshop and garage workshop to separate woodworking from electronics.

I'm going to make the basic cabinet parts with a sandwich of two pieces of 1/2" MDF with a sound absorbing layer in between. Should be nice and dead.

I also had a chance to talk with Joe D'Appolito at the fest about his thoughts on grill screens. Very interesting.

I'm also considering putting the port on the back. I talked to Ray about it, and he said as long as I'm not planning on putting them too close to a back wall (I'm not) then that should be ok. Thoughts?

I'm also planning on a tad bigger than the PE 0.38 cu. ft, perhaps 0.40-0.45. I'm not concerned with a bit lower power handling capacity, since I don't intend to push them too hard. If I want loud I've got plenty of other options.

I'll keep ya posted as soon as I've got something to take pics of!
 
Fisherdude said:
Thoughts?
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Rear porting will work fine, and slightly larger internal volume will give you a bit more extended bass, but as you suggest, also slightly lower power handling capacity.

Our selection of cabinet size was linked to Insignias as target.

Fisherdude said:
I also had a chance to talk with Joe D'Appolito at the fest about his thoughts on grill screens. Very interesting.
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Gurus eat for free, typically.... ;)
 
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Joe likes to use perforated metal for grills. He (working through Snell) has done a lot of testing of response through various materials, scattering/diffraction, etc. The grills wrap around to the sides of the box so there's no discontinuity at the edges. Look at the grill on his K-7 speaker here. It's on the same scale as Indignia.

That was a cool discussion and I'm glad Clay asked him about that.

Ray
 
Oh, man... I knew I should have signed up for that seminar. :yes:

Is there anything exotic about the material he uses, or is it the stuff we can all find?
 
Oh, man... I knew I should have signed up for that seminar. :yes:

Is there anything exotic about the material he uses, or is it the stuff we can all find?
 
Zilch said:
Rear porting will work fine, and slightly larger internal volume will give you a bit more extended bass, but as you suggest, also slightly lower power handling capacity.

Our selection of cabinet size was linked to Insignias as target.
Click to expand...

What is the power handling of the Indignias and how much is given up by building a larger cabinet?
 
It was an interesting discussion. During the seminar he made a few comments that caught my attention, although I don't specifically remember what they were. As I recall, he mentioned something during a discussion about grills on/off, and the effect of the grill cloth itself on the sound. It was enough, however, to induce me to walk up and talk to him afterward. He said they had found something better than woven cloth.

So, when I asked him some follow up questions after the seminar was over, he said: "Metal screen." ?? The first thing I thought of was metal window screening, but that wasn't what he was talking about. He meant perforated metal screen. I went to the Snell speakers and was astonished by what they were doing. Apparently the open holes in the metal are more transparent to the pass-through of sound than the fibers in any kind of woven cloth. I'm guessing it works similar to the way a pin-hole camera works. As the sound passes through the holes it kind of reforms on the other side without any significant changes or losses.

This is the basic idea:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#metal-screens/=2bueq3

The web site won't let me save a direct link to the section I want, so scroll down a little bit and click on "Round Hole Perforated Sheet".

It comes in all different combinations of hole size and spacing. When I asked what sizes worked the best, he replied: "It's a matter of testing and trial and error.". So, he ain't giving up everything!:no:

But, I've got some ideas bouncing around in my head, based on the screens on the Snells.
 
Clay, if it helps at all what I found worked best in commercial sound was 1/16" holes on 7/64" staggered centers, IIRC. I've got an email out for a buddy back there to be sure but I think that's what it was.

Here's a pdf of one of the grills we made for ceiling speakers. (btw, that 1x2 was a pain in the butt! :D)

Ray
 
I was trying to mentally picture the grills on the Snells, and I was pretty certain they were definitely smaller than 1/8". I was thinking 1/16-3/32", so I was pretty close.
 
Would it be unwise to assume that the largest holes with the smallest amount of material that still keep little fingers out would be the best option?

I had always thought that some hex pattern or square pattern holes would create the least amount of difference in sound with/wihtout the grill in place, but for no other reason than being potentially the most open pattern.
 
dnewma04 said:
Would it be unwise to assume that the largest holes with the smallest amount of material that still keep little fingers out would be the best option?
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Cookie racks rule! :banana:

I had always thought that some hex pattern or square pattern holes would create the least amount of difference in sound with/wihtout the grill in place, but for no other reason than being potentially the most open pattern.
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What I found in testing is that it's not just maximum sound transmission that's important. Whenever you're forcing sound through a hole you get diffraction on the other side. Unless you go to something like the cookie racks you will have to match the diffraction and transmission to get the best mix. Of course, in the commercial world we were also trying to hide the driver too and that had a bit to do with our choice but of everything I tested the one listed came out on top...I think. I'll post a confirmation or correction when I hear back from Kevin.
 
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