AK Design Collaborative - Insignia-Class Economy Speakers (a.k.a Indignia)
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Yes, as shown in the pic above, a hex nut on either side of the board.
The input terminals MUST make electrical contact with the metal pads on the solder side.... :yes:
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Hey all,
Just a quick report. About 15 minutes ago, my son (age 5) and I finished assembling the second speaker - start to finish! So both are now fully 'breaking in' with the use of his sansui 7070. Man what a great couple of projects for father and son. CANNOT tell you how cool it is to work on projects like this with my son.
Too early for any sonic impressions although the multiple comments regarding bass will certainly be part of my initial impressions. They are moving some air!
To all of you who contributed to this design, to this effort, and to my rookie questions - thank you thank you thank you. I'll get a few pics up and initial impressions in a few days.
take care
peter
Just a quick report. About 15 minutes ago, my son (age 5) and I finished assembling the second speaker - start to finish! So both are now fully 'breaking in' with the use of his sansui 7070. Man what a great couple of projects for father and son. CANNOT tell you how cool it is to work on projects like this with my son.
Too early for any sonic impressions although the multiple comments regarding bass will certainly be part of my initial impressions. They are moving some air!
To all of you who contributed to this design, to this effort, and to my rookie questions - thank you thank you thank you. I'll get a few pics up and initial impressions in a few days.
take care
peter
All,
OK about 30 hours of break in. Not enough yet to really get a good handle on these speakers but here's what I like so far... bear in mind it's running from an old stock sansui 7070 receiver, in my sons room, and I don't have any experience separating my pride in building them with my son from their audio qualities - more will be fettered out as I play around with sources, and amplifiers...
1. Pace - the speakers are quick but not in your face. They play rock n roll at the right pace, and when I switch over to jazz radio, they get that too. On that note, since I'm only running the radio through it so far - the quality of the public radio stations here far exceeds the typically compressed FM stations so jazz, and some other world music has highlighted the speakers ability more than the rock has.
2. Tonal accuracy - the midrange (as would be expected) is the highlight for me so far. Voice and many acoustic instruments are very 'right' - especially considering the price of these. The sansui is too bright in the treble and this is reflected in the speakers as well - so maybe they're also fairly neutral(?). I'll have more on this after switching out a component or two (!)
3. Size of sound - as many have noted, the bass extension on these make them seem bigger than they are. I would agree here - but so far it's only been playing in my son's room of 13 x 13 so it's not hard to fill that rooms space
And now on to what I hope will continue to develop
Sound quality at lower volumes - I know I know, I love them for the big sound and now I'm asking for smaller sound? But in a nearfield application it's a key criteria. Naturally they can't do everything right, and there's too many variables to consider before I call this a shortcoming.
Soundstage and imaging - they're both constrained between the speakers physical location. Not really evaluating these (arguably audiophile) criteria for the same reasons as low volume... It's too early, wrong source, wrong room, etc.
Bottom line is - if I took the cabinets pricing out of these speakers and built the cabs myself - we're looking at a screaming deal. By buying the beautiful cabs and adding to the price the speakers are still quite the bargain. And I think I read someone's comments here - they play music. And while I tried to put on the audio geek hat above - what really gets me smiling is that they get out of the way and play music. I've had them going all weekend and even being on the main floor with them upstairs, I find myself listening to the music. And that's just fun.
I'll try and get some pics and more thoughts as these continue to break in and I have a chance to monkey with some different equipment.
thanks again all, they've met or exceeded my expectations across the board - caveat once again being I've never built my own speakers before.
peter
OK about 30 hours of break in. Not enough yet to really get a good handle on these speakers but here's what I like so far... bear in mind it's running from an old stock sansui 7070 receiver, in my sons room, and I don't have any experience separating my pride in building them with my son from their audio qualities - more will be fettered out as I play around with sources, and amplifiers...
1. Pace - the speakers are quick but not in your face. They play rock n roll at the right pace, and when I switch over to jazz radio, they get that too. On that note, since I'm only running the radio through it so far - the quality of the public radio stations here far exceeds the typically compressed FM stations so jazz, and some other world music has highlighted the speakers ability more than the rock has.
2. Tonal accuracy - the midrange (as would be expected) is the highlight for me so far. Voice and many acoustic instruments are very 'right' - especially considering the price of these. The sansui is too bright in the treble and this is reflected in the speakers as well - so maybe they're also fairly neutral(?). I'll have more on this after switching out a component or two (!)
3. Size of sound - as many have noted, the bass extension on these make them seem bigger than they are. I would agree here - but so far it's only been playing in my son's room of 13 x 13 so it's not hard to fill that rooms space
And now on to what I hope will continue to develop
Sound quality at lower volumes - I know I know, I love them for the big sound and now I'm asking for smaller sound? But in a nearfield application it's a key criteria. Naturally they can't do everything right, and there's too many variables to consider before I call this a shortcoming.
Soundstage and imaging - they're both constrained between the speakers physical location. Not really evaluating these (arguably audiophile) criteria for the same reasons as low volume... It's too early, wrong source, wrong room, etc.
Bottom line is - if I took the cabinets pricing out of these speakers and built the cabs myself - we're looking at a screaming deal. By buying the beautiful cabs and adding to the price the speakers are still quite the bargain. And I think I read someone's comments here - they play music. And while I tried to put on the audio geek hat above - what really gets me smiling is that they get out of the way and play music. I've had them going all weekend and even being on the main floor with them upstairs, I find myself listening to the music. And that's just fun.
I'll try and get some pics and more thoughts as these continue to break in and I have a chance to monkey with some different equipment.
thanks again all, they've met or exceeded my expectations across the board - caveat once again being I've never built my own speakers before.
peter
specialidiot
Break Glass, Smoke Lucky
Thanks for the summary peterz - good info.
I use my RayW built Indignias in near field. Initially they were driven by a McIntosh MC225 and I loved the synergy between them. The 225 is lush, liquid, everything you want in a tube amp. This plays very nicely with a lot of the qualities we like - quickness, great midrange, and plenty of bass.
Recently the amp's power supply began to fail, so late last week I moved it out and replaced it with the Pass F5 clone that I built. The Indignias continue to excel in near field, but in a different way of course. The F5 is full class A using push/pull mosfets, and instead of the complementary synergy of the 225, I'm getting a fully different vibe. I've had several head-snapping moments trying to local a voice or instrument that popped in the sound stage, only to remember that I'm not sitting in my favorite jazz club.
So I have positive results for near field listening to report!
SI,
great. In case I didn't go far enough explaining my 'nits'...
I can see how those two amplifiers would better the nearfield listening by a long shot over the Sansui/FM combo. And I've only got about 30 hours into the speakers themselves anyway. Maybe the point here is that they WILL do near field really well, with proper break in, or with better quality upstream. I eagerly await an opportunity to swap out some electronics!
I'm glad to hear you've got yours dialed in (TWICE!!).
take care and I'll get to more feedback as warranted.
enjoy!
peter
great. In case I didn't go far enough explaining my 'nits'...
I can see how those two amplifiers would better the nearfield listening by a long shot over the Sansui/FM combo. And I've only got about 30 hours into the speakers themselves anyway. Maybe the point here is that they WILL do near field really well, with proper break in, or with better quality upstream. I eagerly await an opportunity to swap out some electronics!
I'm glad to hear you've got yours dialed in (TWICE!!).
take care and I'll get to more feedback as warranted.
enjoy!
peter
Correction...RayW started, not built. You still have to finish them and I'm really looking forward to seeing the end result. I think they'll be some sexy beasts. Now break out the rosewood, the glue, and one of those fantastic Trappist ales and get with it!
specialidiot
Break Glass, Smoke Lucky
Yeah but that means I won't be able to listen to them while being reworked.
I'm rebuilding a pair of Ampex mono blox at the moment, but they won't take long. Basically a cleanup and re-routing of leads from a previous recap.
I 'spose.... time to get busy.
jimbofish
for TRULY GREAT MUSIC
Getting ready to start cutting the panels and am wondering how much allowance was made for for bracing and interior woodwork in the original calculations. I know subtractions were made from the nominal volume of an empty cab for the drivers, crossover parts, port tube, etc, but this should be the same for everyone's. I seem to remember a series of posts about it, but I've gone through this thread twice looking for it but haven't found it yet. Can someone point me to the post I'm looking for?:scratch2:
Russellc
Addicted Member
Cabinet volume for the finished cabs was .38 cu ft. Some have used as large as .50 cu ft with a little different tuning on the port. I think there is a link on the first page about the crossover schematic.
Russellc
You want the net volume to be .38 ft^3 for "stock" Indignias. How much bracing you use it up to you. I don't think there is a standard size quoted in this thread as it really depends on what you want to do inside. Mine have no internal bracing but I used solid oak cheek pieces that make the side walls 1.5" thick. The ones I put together for Specialidiot use a single cross brace from side to side and that volume was compensated with a hair of extra depth. In the pics of Zilch's you can see the window brace that PE uses in their cabs.
Anyway, the answer is that there isn't a single answer to your question. Just add some volume for whatever bracing you decide to put in.
Ray
Anyway, the answer is that there isn't a single answer to your question. Just add some volume for whatever bracing you decide to put in.
Ray
jimbofish
for TRULY GREAT MUSIC
So, the .38cu' is the volume after all the components are installed, then? ...not the volume of the empty cabinet?
My calculations come up with .42cu' for an empty cab using 3/4" material and 'stock' exterior dimensions of 8"x14"x10.5, leaving a difference of ~.04' or roughly 70"cu. Sound about right?
Do we have a figure for the space taken up by the drivers, port, and crossover?
The reason I'm trying to figure this out is because the materials I have will result in a slightly smaller (shorter) frontal area, but I'll have excess depth to work with. That will let me adjust the position of back panel in or out to reach the required volume. Maybe I'm not explaining this clearly?
I used the cabinet utility in Bassbox 6 with generic numbers for driver/XO space and came up with the same numbers you have there. You should be fine shortening the cab and making it deeper. I did that with the ones that Specialidiot has so they'd fit his space. I came down to 12" (outside) and went back enough to get back to the .38 net. I could probably find the dimensions if you need them but the math isn't that involved. Just make sure the driver layout will fit ok. Z's drawing is dimensioned from center so it wasn't a problem with a 12" baffle.
Ray
Ray
Build update! XOs are completed and ready to test. I only had enough foam for one cab, so an order went into PE today to complete the other box. I will be off to HD tomorrow to round up some 1 1/2" PVC pipe. I hope to have these kiddies up and running by next week.
jimbofish
for TRULY GREAT MUSIC
Well, as it turned out, my internal dimensions ended up just about dead on to 6.5"x12.5" behind the baffle, so I can set the depth to anywhere from 9" to 10.5" as my side panels are 12" deep. Using the 9" marks as "zero" internal bracing, then move it back to allow for the volume of any bracing added... :scratch2:
Just to make sure I'm still on the right track, it's still recommended that the face of the baffle be flush with the sides, correct? (my baffle fits inside the side panels rather than on the front edges.):yes:
Is there any reason that favors one 'clock' position of the terminals for the tweeter over another... before I cut out the notch for the terminals?
I'm also assuming there's not any real need for the baffle to be removable for the final assembly, correct? It appears to me that any components that need to go inside the case will fit through the woofer cutout... or am I missing something? :scratch2:
I'm just about ready to do some final fitting before gluing up the case.:thmbsp:
Adjust-o-bass. :thmbsp:
Yeah, you want everything flush on the front if you can get it. Rounded edges are even better.
I usually set it up so the mounting screws line up somehow on the front and just cut the terminal access where that puts it.
Yeah, the ones I've done have all been buttoned up and XO, terminals, etc. were done through the driver hole.
