jaaronb
Active Member
They are sounding really, really good. I mean...outstanding.
I recently sold a pair of Harbeth C7es3s, owned everything from Spendor to Acoustic Zen to Tekton to Stirling before that.
They are without question the best speakers I've owned/run on my own rig. And I'm in a new house in a basement with 7' ceilings. This room sucks.
The first five or ten minutes were a bit of a nail biter...with four 12" drivers that had been sitting in boxes for a couple months after having been reconed/gaussed, it took a few minutes for them to wake up. It sounded a little scattered and congested at first...we're talking the first 20 mins.
So I've got maybe 4 hours run-in time on them now tops...they are literally sounding better every few minutes.
I hate the cliche (I'm a musician and I've tracked/mixed/mastered...I get critical listening), but I am clearly hearing things happening on tracks within songs that have simply never been there before.
My only issue is, so far, I need the L-Pads at ~ 2.5 - 3 (or a 7 on the 'attenuation scale?). I can go up to 5 or 6, then it's chopping my head off. This makes me wonder about the crossover design...I'm pushing these with an 8 watt/side SEP amp made by Coincident and I can't really bear anything over 12 o'clock. That's running a crappy DAC though. With my phono set up, I imagine I'd be ok up to 2 o'clock, depending on how hot the record was mastered.
I'm happy to do a YouTube video.
What do you all want to hear?
I recently sold a pair of Harbeth C7es3s, owned everything from Spendor to Acoustic Zen to Tekton to Stirling before that.
They are without question the best speakers I've owned/run on my own rig. And I'm in a new house in a basement with 7' ceilings. This room sucks.
The first five or ten minutes were a bit of a nail biter...with four 12" drivers that had been sitting in boxes for a couple months after having been reconed/gaussed, it took a few minutes for them to wake up. It sounded a little scattered and congested at first...we're talking the first 20 mins.
So I've got maybe 4 hours run-in time on them now tops...they are literally sounding better every few minutes.
I hate the cliche (I'm a musician and I've tracked/mixed/mastered...I get critical listening), but I am clearly hearing things happening on tracks within songs that have simply never been there before.
My only issue is, so far, I need the L-Pads at ~ 2.5 - 3 (or a 7 on the 'attenuation scale?). I can go up to 5 or 6, then it's chopping my head off. This makes me wonder about the crossover design...I'm pushing these with an 8 watt/side SEP amp made by Coincident and I can't really bear anything over 12 o'clock. That's running a crappy DAC though. With my phono set up, I imagine I'd be ok up to 2 o'clock, depending on how hot the record was mastered.
I'm happy to do a YouTube video.
What do you all want to hear?
Last edited:
gdmoore28
Super Member
Something with intimate vocals (KD Lang, Drag album); some nicely recorded big band (Christian McBride, The Good Feeling album); and, of course, some jazz (Brubeck Brothers Quartet, Lifetimes album, "Take Five.").
Looking forward to it.
GeeDeeEmm
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Familiar with JJ Cale?
They'll really shine on albums like "Naturally" or "Troubadour", he did his own engineering and mixdowns, felt that vocals should not be out front, but rather deeply immersed so as to draw you into the music more completely. I think good Altecs illustrate his concept very well.
If i had a "hero" in rock n roll, it would be this man.
If you;re not familiar, let me introduce you to the "Tulsa sound".
I find his music on Altecs to be as habit forming as cocaine.
They'll really shine on albums like "Naturally" or "Troubadour", he did his own engineering and mixdowns, felt that vocals should not be out front, but rather deeply immersed so as to draw you into the music more completely. I think good Altecs illustrate his concept very well.
If i had a "hero" in rock n roll, it would be this man.
If you;re not familiar, let me introduce you to the "Tulsa sound".
I find his music on Altecs to be as habit forming as cocaine.
Last edited:
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
2 essential big band tracks i love to thrash the Altecs with:
jaaronb
Active Member
Dude. I love J.J. Cale... always felt he was under appreciated by kids 'my age', i.e., now, 40. I never knew he was involved in engineering his own records... his 'sound' has always been a big part of what I like about him... he oozes style...consistent sonic aesthetic. Now I know why.
Ok... I'll pull together a YouTube video. Gimmie a day. (I've never understand how people tell from a YouTube video how a system sounds, though?).
Got the turntable set up. The teenager seems to dig it.
Ok... I'll pull together a YouTube video. Gimmie a day. (I've never understand how people tell from a YouTube video how a system sounds, though?).
Got the turntable set up. The teenager seems to dig it.
Attachments
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
JJ Cale also wrote " Call Me the Breeze".
He did not like the limelight, or popularity.
He loved to write music.
He loved to play.
He loved to make other artists sound their best.
Long time close friend of Leon Russell.
He did not like the limelight, or popularity.
He loved to write music.
He loved to play.
He loved to make other artists sound their best.
Long time close friend of Leon Russell.
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Then you'll probably like this, it reveals some truths that will be painful for some as not all "stars" are all they're cracked up to be. Carol is like a repository of musical skill and competence, in a word "amazing".
Notice the Altecs along the way.
jaaronb
Active Member
....since I'm only a couple resistors short of having the full 30923 HF attenuator network running here, I think I might finish it out and see how it affects the sound.
I did a kind of shortcut Zilch had recommended someone try on a pair of 9844s in the Skywaverider thread, which was a 6uf cap + 8ohm resistor in series with the HF. The 30923 network adds a couple more resistors for what I believe would be greater MF attenuation than I'm getting right now.
Any reason not to finish the 30923s out?
I did a kind of shortcut Zilch had recommended someone try on a pair of 9844s in the Skywaverider thread, which was a 6uf cap + 8ohm resistor in series with the HF. The 30923 network adds a couple more resistors for what I believe would be greater MF attenuation than I'm getting right now.
Any reason not to finish the 30923s out?
gdmoore28
Super Member
You owe it to yourself to try the 30923 circuit. I finished my basic crossovers yesterday (Second order LR, 800Hz, using starting capacitors) and constructed it so that I could compare the unit with and without the 30923. It does exactly as advertized - the mids are pulled in and the highs are more pronounced. Whether you like that or not will be up to you. Because of my old-age hearing loss, I appreciate the highs, but I'm afraid I will still need to add a super tweeter.
To try out the components, I installed a 421 reconed as a 416 into a Heathkit SS1-B cabinet I just bought, and laid the 511/802D on top. The Heath cabinet produced bass response like I've never heard from a 416. I just hope my 606-type build sound as good as these!
GeeDeeEmm
To try out the components, I installed a 421 reconed as a 416 into a Heathkit SS1-B cabinet I just bought, and laid the 511/802D on top. The Heath cabinet produced bass response like I've never heard from a 416. I just hope my 606-type build sound as good as these!
GeeDeeEmm
Last edited:
jaaronb
Active Member
gdmoore28
Super Member
By the way, when I had all of this stuff assembled yesterday, I thought that I could hear a classic case of those "ringing" Altec horns. A little investigation revealed that the ringing was being introduced to the horn by the bass cabinet. Simply isolating the horn from the bass cab removed the ringing. I wonder if this is what people have been hearing all these years?
GeeDeeEmm
GeeDeeEmm
jaaronb
Active Member
Great info GeeDeeEmm... those are the cap/resistor values I'm going with also. Going to try Jensen PIO caps.
I've so far not noticed any ringing, or vibration introduced into the horns by the cabs... I've got the rim of the horns resting on .25" thick slabs of sorbothane I had lying around for other projects. The compression drivers are resting on rubber sandwiched cork vibration dampers. Not sure I'd any of that is really doing anything, but as a temporary step, it seems fine. My horns also have 2-3 coats of 3M rubberized undercoating on them, which did lessen their tendency to ring in free air.
Really looking forward to getting the 30923 network installed.
Does anyone smarter than me know if the cap/resistor combo I have on the + side of my HF circuit is doing more harm than good? Thinking about taking them out and using the stock N-800F until I can get the 30923 wired in later this week.
I've so far not noticed any ringing, or vibration introduced into the horns by the cabs... I've got the rim of the horns resting on .25" thick slabs of sorbothane I had lying around for other projects. The compression drivers are resting on rubber sandwiched cork vibration dampers. Not sure I'd any of that is really doing anything, but as a temporary step, it seems fine. My horns also have 2-3 coats of 3M rubberized undercoating on them, which did lessen their tendency to ring in free air.
Really looking forward to getting the 30923 network installed.
Does anyone smarter than me know if the cap/resistor combo I have on the + side of my HF circuit is doing more harm than good? Thinking about taking them out and using the stock N-800F until I can get the 30923 wired in later this week.
gdmoore28
Super Member
Finally got around to watching the Carol Kaye interview. Wow. I'd heard about her all my adult life, but had never bothered looking her up. Her knowledge of music just blows my mind. And her insistence that a lack of knowledge of jazz chord structure being a severely limiting factor for most musicians is absolutely spot on. It's true even for drummers, like me.
GeeDeeEmm
jaaronb
Active Member
Hey folks - ok... Small issue. Finally had a chance to sit down and do some l serious listening, it was evident there were some phase issues happening.
Ran the test tones at audiocheck.net... here's the result:
I have to swap one of the speaker leads to get the 414z drivers in phase. The 'in phase' 75hz test tone is much louder with one of the speaker leads reversed (although it is also dirtier than the 'out of phase' 75hz test tone.
In this configuration, however (one speaker lead switched), the horns play out of phase... they sound PERFECTLY centered and in-phase playing the 'out of phase' guitar part....no combination of swapping the horn leads at the horns themselves seems to change this.
With the polarity of the speakers wired normally, the 414zs seem to be out of phase (the 'in phase' 75hz test tone is much quieter). But the horns in this configuration do not sound as well centered as they do with when playing the 'out of phase' guitar track when one of the main speaker leads is switched (and the 414zs seemingly in phase).
I did try switching the polarity of the leads on one, then both of horns, but neither changed anything....
Obviously I've done something wrong in the crossovers... anyone have any ideas what I might have screwed up...or where?
Ran the test tones at audiocheck.net... here's the result:
I have to swap one of the speaker leads to get the 414z drivers in phase. The 'in phase' 75hz test tone is much louder with one of the speaker leads reversed (although it is also dirtier than the 'out of phase' 75hz test tone.
In this configuration, however (one speaker lead switched), the horns play out of phase... they sound PERFECTLY centered and in-phase playing the 'out of phase' guitar part....no combination of swapping the horn leads at the horns themselves seems to change this.
With the polarity of the speakers wired normally, the 414zs seem to be out of phase (the 'in phase' 75hz test tone is much quieter). But the horns in this configuration do not sound as well centered as they do with when playing the 'out of phase' guitar track when one of the main speaker leads is switched (and the 414zs seemingly in phase).
I did try switching the polarity of the leads on one, then both of horns, but neither changed anything....
Obviously I've done something wrong in the crossovers... anyone have any ideas what I might have screwed up...or where?