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Altec Model 19 Technical Info? Similar Econowave?

Added a woofer crossover simulation in post #5:

Altec Model 19 Technical Info? Similar Econowave?

I've been interested in the Altec Model 19 (M19) since I was in my teens and read the review in High Fidelity 1978. Page 37 in the .pdf: https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-High-Fidelity/70s/High-Fidelity-1978-02.pdf More...
audiokarma.org
 
The Valencia was a further continuation of the original 2-way Iconic loudspeaker systems, it's final iteration would get ducted ports and a modified crossover. It is a direct descendant of the original 1937 Lansing Iconic speaker system. Before Altec assigned Latin names to their speaker systems, the Valencia was simply known as Iconic.

At the time of it's introduction, the model 19 represented the pinnacle of of development for the Iconic 2-way loudspeaker.

1723281574293.png
 
The Valencia suggestion is interesting because, I believe, it gets you the correct woofers and
horns, a large box 7.5 vs 8.1 cuft, but the wrong crossover and drivers. Here a guy replaces
the crossover with the GPA M19 crossover and then moves on to trying an active XO which fails:
I really like the light linen grille cloth.
www.audioresurgence.com

Altec Lansing Valencia 846B Rebuild Project And Review

Restoring and optimizing the Altec Lansing Valencia 846B speakers, new crossovers from Great Plains Audio vs digital XOs, review of the Valencia 846B in 2022
www.audioresurgence.com www.audioresurgence.com

I have a feeling that he left out baffle step, and perhaps horn contouring which is a big mistake.
He references advice on bi-amping the M19 at the GPA site but I can't find it, anyone know
where to find a copy?
The beauty of active is how easy it is to give them a bit less/more baffle step and fine tune the response
in general. But I believe that first you have to duplicate all the features of the passive XO to get
in the ball park.
 
Pete B said:
The Valencia suggestion is interesting because, I believe, it gets you the correct woofers and
horns, a large box 7.5 vs 8.1 cuft, but the wrong crossover and drivers. Here a guy replaces
the crossover with the GPA M19 crossover and then moves on to trying an active XO which fails:
I really like the light linen grille cloth.
www.audioresurgence.com

Altec Lansing Valencia 846B Rebuild Project And Review

Restoring and optimizing the Altec Lansing Valencia 846B speakers, new crossovers from Great Plains Audio vs digital XOs, review of the Valencia 846B in 2022
www.audioresurgence.com www.audioresurgence.com

I have a feeling that he left out baffle step, and perhaps horn contouring which is a big mistake.
He references advice on bi-amping the M19 at the GPA site but I can't find it, anyone know
where to find a copy?
The beauty of active is how easy it is to give them a bit less/more baffle step and fine tune the response
in general. But I believe that first you have to duplicate all the features of the passive XO to get
in the ball park.
Click to expand...
Been lurking on this one. I have a few matching 15s looking for a project, and a pair of promasrer cabs to sacrifice.

To digress a hair, it seems there's a lot of discussion on active vs passive, but little meat to be found. I'm still playing with a 511/420a combo that's very very promising, but it's kicking me in the crossover. I think the difference in the horn compensation methods are where the problems arise. I'm not convinced active cd is any improvement over the networks altec designed. Going to an ewave solves that, but eliminates the 511 which isn't what I want.

Have you found anything resembling an adjustable, passive cd circuit in your research?
 
Most of us start with the Econowave XO and go from there in Xsim. But lately I've been
thinking that the M19 XO is also a good place to start.

If you have something like a MiniDSP there's no reason why all the features of the M19 or
Econowave crossover cannot be added to the curves.

I'm not familiar with the 420a do you have measurements on that horn?
 
Last edited:
Anyone know the difference between the 416-8a and 8b?
They are both ALNICO:
"The 416 "C" has a ceramic magnet. The 416 "B" is alnico."
Another says that the A has less (Xmech?) travel, not sure.
Another says that the A, B, and C use the same cone kit for a recone.
Edit: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/altec-16”-416-8a-vs-416-8b.1021600/

This person measures a 4168Z which I've read is an OEM version of the 8A (OEM and different?):

First SPL measurement that I've seen of a real Altec 416 woofer and the peaking up around 1-2K
seems to be very minimal maybe 2-3 dB vs. 5-10 for the GPA. Very curious about this.
 
Last edited:
Pete B said:
Most of us start with the Econowave XO and go from there in Xsim.
If you have something like a MiniDSP there's no reason why all the features of the M19 or
Econowave crossover cannot be added to the curves.

I'm not familiar with the 420a do you have measurements on that horn?
Click to expand...
The 420a is the 16" biflex from the original Santanas. Altec advertised the driver as a stepping stone to a 2 or 3 way, and it sounds lovely to me crossed at about 850hz to the 511

I'm about to pull the trigger on a driverack pa2, I'm going to need a sub unless I build bigger cabs. These start to drop at 55hz or so. But the appeal of a passive solution is there.
 
loudnoises said:
The 420a is the 16" biflex from the original Santanas. Altec advertised the driver as a stepping stone to a 2 or 3 way, and it sounds lovely to me crossed at about 850hz to the 511

I'm about to pull the trigger on a driverack pa2, I'm going to need a sub unless I build bigger cabs. These start to drop at 55hz or so. But the appeal of a passive solution is there.
Click to expand...

What box volume do you have them in and where is it tuned?
Do it right and you can use gentle EQ to get at least into the 30s if that woofer is
anything like a 416.
Let us know when you get that Driverack setup and perhaps we can help.

Zilch used a 511 with his Z19 crossover and liked it.

It would be best if you start a new thread and describe what you have and where you are with your speakers.
 
Pete B said:
Anyone know the difference between the 416-8a and 8b?
Click to expand...
The 416-8B used a magnetic return structure that was cast as a single piece of steel. All previous iterations of 803/416 used a return structure made from rolled steel pipe and plate held together by a few stitch welds.

This same difference in method of construction also exists for the 802 compression drivers. The "8G" used in model Nineteen also sported the new one piece cast steel body/return structure with all prior versions being of the welded pipe and plate variety.
 
When I was an apprentice teacher in my boilermaker local I took a 511 down to the school and removed the vanes with an arc gouge and then ground and polished the remnants smooth. I heard no difference from the vane removal, it was a waste of time and effort.
 
Pete B said:
It is unfortunate that Great Plains Audio is gone....
Click to expand...

Under new ownership and now called Great Plains Acoustics they appear to be getting their act together. They reintroduced the ferrite magnet 604s and the 288 compression driver, also replacement diaphragms for 288s. If I ever return to 604s I'd consider new ferrite 604s. They're expensive but that's OK if they maintain good quality.

greatplainsacoustics.com

Great Plain Acoustics drivers and speakers where Altec Legend Lives on

Great Plains Acoustics (GPA) was born out of the Altec Lansing corporation in 1998. It carries forward the loudspeaker design and manufacturing tradition that began with Western Electric in the early 20th century. GPA is the only place where Western Electric/Altec Lansing sound reproduction...
greatplainsacoustics.com greatplainsacoustics.com
 
Not exactly the same, but just came across this on FB, maybe 1/2 mile away.

altec Santana.jpg

This is a pair of Altec Santana cabinets that I reworked into a hi efficiency horn two way system (approx 96 db). I'm running them on a 20 watt tube amp and that is enough power to rock the house. Cabinets are in very good condition. Altec 417-8H woofers paired with Eminence 1" compression driver and SEOS 12 Horn Wave Guide. 12db crossovers with high frequency attenuators. Since these monitors need a subwoofer to really make them shine since they are in a sealed cabinet,
 
loudnoises said:
The 420a is the 16" biflex from the original Santanas. Altec advertised the driver as a stepping stone to a 2 or 3 way, and it sounds lovely to me crossed at about 850hz to the 511

I'm about to pull the trigger on a driverack pa2, I'm going to need a sub unless I build bigger cabs. These start to drop at 55hz or so. But the appeal of a passive solution is there.
Click to expand...
@loudnoises I don't have Altec parts but am interesting in how to get the best sound with an active XO, tell us what parts you have and
perhaps we can help. What driver is on the horn?
 
Pete B said:
@loudnoises I don't have Altec parts but am interesting in how to get the best sound with an active XO, tell us what parts you have and
perhaps we can help. What driver is on the horn?
Click to expand...
Ev 1823m on the 511s. I prefer phenolic diaphragms to metal, and these seem to make a nice pairing.

For a long time I ran a behringer 3410 and separate eq, but was using some ev12ml in some Karlsson variant cabs. Decided I was sick of the amp stack and that i didn't trustthe dc300 on my 25w altecs. I stumbled upon an adcom 2535. Currently using that to drive the horns and the 420a still in the Santana cabinets. Tweeters will be parasitic off the horns; I've a few caps, lpad, and different tweeter options to try out once I get there.

The cd circuit in the behringer seems weak in the lower end, I need more boost in the 2-4k range I think. But it also has this damn ground hum I cannot get rid of. Tried everything. It's good on balanced but I'm needing it unbalanced for this. The next step will be an st-70 running the lows and a (hopefully) my fisher 30a pair running the horns. So this ground issue is totally overwhelming all my thoughts as it's central to the long term.

I was thinking about it this morning, can you replicate the cd compensation circuit with a single eq circuit? Like with a very wide slope, if I'm describing it correctly.
 
Pete B said:
I bought a pair of 811b horns locally from FB, excellent condition, good price.
Will try them out at some point with a modern driver.
Click to expand...
I bit the bullet and picked up a dsp-408 and microphone. Once I get things up and running I'll need to learn some analysis software so I can actually contribute.

I've had a pair of 811s on the wish list for a few years. I really enjoy my 511s but the curiosity is strong.
 
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