Alternate Way to Look at Digital Vinyl

[Hajidub]

Interesting post from an audio engineer, it opened my eyes to some stuff.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/10/17/hi-fi-why-do-records-sound-better-the-ivory-tower/

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I was a darkroom educated photographer. To make my digital captures look more ‘real’, I often added a bit of noise into the file to mimic film grain.

 

[JoeESP9]

I still have a Durst enlarger stored away.

 

[ernieb1536]

Interesting post from an audio engineer, it opened my eyes to some stuff.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/10/17/hi-fi-why-do-records-sound-better-the-ivory-tower/

Very interesting article thanks for posting the link

 

[RunOutGroove]

Interesting article. The guy seems to echo my own thoughts on the matter - that digital is the higher resolution medium but that the typical artifacts of the analog process can color the sound in a way that's pleasing to a lot of us. He mentioned though that a lot of that kind of "analog coloration" (or at least analog sounding) can be added to digital recordings and that seems to me to maybe the best of all possible worlds; the warmth that we associate with analog but the better dynamic range, lack of scratches and pops, etc that digital can do...

 

[Kodaline]

It needs to sound real, and there's multiple ways to screw up during both analog and digital processes.

 

[RunOutGroove]

It needs to sound real, and there's multiple ways to screw up during both analog and digital processes.

I feel like the idea of "real" is very much relative, which is kind of the point of it. Nothing sounds quite real anyway when it's recorded and played back and with that in mind we may as well recognize the kind of coloration that is part of the recording process. Some of it is usually heard as ugly distortion, but other stuff is read as 'warmth" and considered a positive. Not to mention the fact that so much music isn't even really designed to sound real anyway, it's kind of a manufactured thing that's meant to sound like it was made in some sort of manufactured space that's never physically existed.

 

[petes'picks]

My approach is that if its a digital recording I get the CD and will not bother with vinyl. If it was a analog recording, I have many of my old favorites on vinyl and CD and the vinyl wins out on sound quality the vast majority of time even with the groove noise.

Analog recording is never going get its throne back as the preferred recording method, digital is so much easier for storage and post production. I have no interest in spending money on digital vinyl, tried a few and for me my money is best spent elsewhere.

 

[ernieb1536]

My approach is that if its a digital recording I get the CD and will not bother with vinyl. If it was a analog recording, I have many of my old favorites on vinyl and CD and the vinyl wins out on sound quality the vast majority of time even with the groove noise.

Analog recording is never going get its throne back as the preferred recording method, digital is so much easier for storage and post production. I have no interest in spending money on digital vinyl, tried a few and for me my money is best spent elsewhere.

I have some digital vinyl that sounds great some analog vinyl that sounds better and some vinyl that we’ll just sucks! I will always have some vinyl in my systems but it’s reserved for the albums that are great all the way through for example Fleetwood Mac Runours , Dark side of the moon Dreamboat Anny hotel California , for other fm bluetooth or cds work , why limit yourself to one format

 

[MannyE]

Digital Vinyl is an "Alternative Fact"

It's either analog or it isn't.

 

[RunOutGroove]

Digital Vinyl is an "Alternative Fact"

It's either analog or it isn't.

It's really just shorthand for vinyl records that have been made from recordings that were digitally recorded and mastered. There might be a better term for the same, but I don't tend to get to wrapped up in the terminology as long as it describes something in a way that I understand...

 

[MannyE]

It's really just shorthand for vinyl records that have been made from recordings that were digitally recorded and mastered. There might be a better term for the same, but I don't tend to get to wrapped up in the terminology as long as it describes something in a way that I understand...

I'm sorry! I read it as records that were recorded to digital...then played back, but my sentiment still stands even for digital source media. However, at least with digital source media, things can be done and I imagine that just the transferring of the audio signal into a D/A converter (or whatever they have to do to cut a master) would add some analog character to the signal.

To be fair, I have never heard two side by side recordings of a performance one digitally mastered and one analog mastered to be able to say for sure. But it just ranckles to have anything digital called "analog" you know? Cause it isn't.

 

[RunOutGroove]

But it just ranckles to have anything digital called "analog" you know? Cause it isn't.

I don't see it as all that complicated; the "digital" part is the original recording and the "analog" part of it is the format and playback device.,,, thus it seems perfectly logical than the term for this would have both words ascribed to it. Whether or not such a thing is worth doing is another question, but it's a question that I'd say is worth asking because the vast majority of recordings made in the last 30 years or so are digital so one might wonder whether or not any of this stuff is going to have enough "analog character," to be worth listening to on an analog format. There's also the fact that many very old records that were tracked on analog tape have been more recently mastered digitally and also pressed on vinyl. One has to ask whether or not a piece of music that exists as a digital file is going to be improved by pressing it onto vinyl... because if it isn't then the vast majority or records being pressed these days aren't really worth it, at least not for a sound quality perspective...

 

[MannyE]

I don't see it as all that complicated; the "digital" part is the original recording and the "analog" part of it is the format and playback device.,,, thus it seems perfectly logical than the term for this would have both words ascribed to it. Whether or not such a thing is worth doing is another question, but it's a question that I'd say is worth asking because the vast majority of recordings made in the last 30 years or so are digital so one might wonder whether or not any of this stuff is going to have enough "analog character," to be worth listening to on an analog format. There's also the fact that many very old records that were tracked on analog tape have been more recently mastered digitally and also pressed on vinyl. One has to ask whether or not a piece of music that exists as a digital file is going to be improved by pressing it onto vinyl... because if it isn't then the vast majority or records being pressed these days aren't really worth it, at least not for a sound quality perspective...

Yeah not arguing that point at all. Mostly because it's very true that an all-analog chain is super niche these days with only a very few small studios actually making them. Luckily there are so many millions of existing records, it will be 100 years before we actually have to worry about a lack of all-analog recordings being available.

 

[RunOutGroove]

Yeah not arguing that point at all. Mostly because it's very true that an all-analog chain is super niche these days with only a very few small studios actually making them. Luckily there are so many millions of existing records, it will be 100 years before we actually have to worry about a lack of all-analog recordings being available.

If folks are only getting the benefit of that "analog sound" from older records (but only really old ones and not even recent reissues, which more than likely are from digital masters) then that seems like one more reason why the whole vinyl format is less desirable and ultimately doomed to failure. Then again, I understand that a well done super-high resolution digital dub of an analog tape can sound virtually identical to the original and if that's the case, then maybe all of the hoopla of sourcing directly from the analog master isn't really important anyway... and if that were true then it would follow that a really well done master would sound faithful to the original when played back digitally too. I would argue that for the vast majority of folks who buy vinyl that sound quality isn't really even that important anyway, even if a lot of people claim that it is (I don't think that most really understand how to even compare).

 

[ernieb1536]

If folks are only getting the benefit of that "analog sound" from older records (but only really old ones and not even recent reissues, which more than likely are from digital masters) then that seems like one more reason why the whole vinyl format is less desirable and ultimately doomed to failure. Then again, I understand that a well done super-high resolution digital dub of an analog tape can sound virtually identical to the original and if that's the case, then maybe all of the hoopla of sourcing directly from the analog master isn't really important anyway... and if that were true then it would follow that a really well done master would sound faithful to the original when played back digitally too. I would argue that for the vast majority of folks who buy vinyl that sound quality isn't really even that important anyway, even if a lot of people claim that it is (I don't think that most really understand how to even compare).

To often we can’t see the forest for the trees in the quest for perfect sound we forget the the real enjoyment is the music ! Is vinyl the best format in most cases it’s not but there are times it really shines! And I will say that it can be one of the most enjoyable formats!

 

[RunOutGroove]

To often we can’t see the forest for the trees in the quest for perfect sound we forget the the real enjoyment is the music ! Is vinyl the best format in most cases it’s not but there are times it really shines! And I will say that it can be one of the most enjoyable formats!

I totally agree! I don't choose the music that I listen to (at least not usually) because it's some kind of a spacious, hi-fi experience, but because of the actual content of the stuff. I like collecting LPs and even after amassing something like 1500 of them, I'm still buying more (I just bought a stack at an estate sale where there was lots to pick from and they were going for cheap). As long as the LP in question is in decent condition so I'm not stuck listening to too many scratches, pops and skips, I actually prefer to own a record on that format. I have my own personal reasons for digging LPs, yet I'm under no allusion that the sound quality is better than digital. I just don't believe that it is. With the right copy and right gear either digital or analog formats though can sound great...

 

[JoeESP9]

Digital Vinyl is an "Alternative Fact"

It's either analog or it isn't.

I have some CD-R's that resemble 7" 45's. Are they digital vinyl? What about my DVD-R's that resemble a film reel?

 

[WillVT]

I hope this thread doesn't devolve in to another boring digital vs analog argument. What I took from the article, which I really liked, is that people like McNair are picking out the aspects of analog recording and playback that a lot of people really like, and applying that to the digital world. What some would call minor imperfections and distortions, is what he is bringing back. We as humans all have imperfections, and I think the importance of bringing that to music, and to any art form really, cannot be understated.

It's kind of like the difference between a pop singer who uses auto-tune to correct imperfections in pitch, and a talented singer. While objectively they are now more in tune, it's exactly those little imperfections and personal touches of a great singer that make their singing, or their art memorable and unique. It's like the brushstrokes of a great painting. It makes it a real human expression, and allows us to connect.

 

[Hajidub]

I hope this thread doesn't devolve in to another boring digital vs analog argument. What I took from the article, which I really liked, is that people like McNair are picking out the aspects of analog recording and playback that a lot of people really like, and applying that to the digital world. What some would call minor imperfections and distortions, is what he is bringing back to. We as humans all have imperfections, and I think the importance bringing that to music, and to any art form really, cannot be understated.

It's kind of like the difference between and pop singer who uses auto-tune to correct imperfections in pitch. While objectively they are now more in tune, it's exactly those little imperfections and personal touches of a great singer that make their singing, or their art memorable and unique. It's like the brushstrokes of a great painting. It makes it a real human expression, and allows us to connect.

I think you're the first person to articulate what the article actually pointed out. I believe a lot of the analog/digital argument posters were folks that didn't read the article and commented based upon what others posted. I really found the addition of analog noise and the use of specific vinyl cutters to digital supplies really fascinating, and how they enhanced what the engineer listened to after it's completion. Thanks Will.