• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Amp with variable loudness as peak limiter (?) + mids control for intelligibility. For use with headphones, mainly speech.

T

TerpSound

New Member
I'm in need of some advice, hope you can help.

I'm looking for an integrated amplifier for use in professional remote interpreting. It looks as though no headphone amps have physical tone control knobs these days, so they are out of the question. I need physical tone control knobs, preferably mids as well as the usual treble and bass to adjust sound for speech intelligibility, but just bass and treble can also work.

And there is variable/adjustable loudness control, which makes me wonder whether it could be used as a peak limiter of sorts, to maximise the volume of the amp, and keep speech intelligible even at lower volumes. It is crucial that volume and loudness both need to be safe even after long hours of use, and the sound should be warm (as opposed to analytical) and as close to natural as possible. This is a challenge, since the source is a Windows laptop and the sound from e.g. meetings on Zoom is often not professional depending on whether people use a proper mic or a wired internet connection as is recommended. I'll use a decent DAC to connect the amp to the laptop. I'll only use the amp's volume control, and use a fixed setting in Windows. My mic can be connected directly to the laptop, so is not an issue.

Unfortunately, digitally compressed sound can cause hearing damage even at lower levels where peak limiters are not triggered because of the unnaturally high-energy mid-range frequencies. I'm using Equalizer APO for baseline calibration to the headphones (Sennheiser HD 25, 70Ohm) and to get a neutral baseline EQ, which should in theory help with this, but the amp also needs to do its bit and make the sound more natural and rounder, while keeping it safe.
The question is whether loudness control does indeed meet these requirements, and whether variable loudness control in particular would help keep speech intelligible at all times at the same constant volume, without any strain on the ears.

Importantly, the whole setup will have to have close to zero latency (not usually an issue with analogue systems, but had to mention anyway).

Any advice and ideas on the above would be much appreciated, and recommendations for specific amplifiers most welcome.

Thanks!
 
Register to hide this ad
TerpSound said:
I'm in need of some advice, hope you can help.

I'm looking for an integrated amplifier for use in professional remote interpreting. It looks as though no headphone amps have physical tone control knobs these days, so they are out of the question. I need physical tone control knobs, preferably mids as well as the usual treble and bass to adjust sound for speech intelligibility, but just bass and treble can also work.

And there is variable/adjustable loudness control, which makes me wonder whether it could be used as a peak limiter of sorts, to maximise the volume of the amp, and keep speech intelligible even at lower volumes. It is crucial that volume and loudness both need to be safe even after long hours of use, and the sound should be warm (as opposed to analytical) and as close to natural as possible. This is a challenge, since the source is a Windows laptop and the sound from e.g. meetings on Zoom is often not professional depending on whether people use a proper mic or a wired internet connection as is recommended. I'll use a decent DAC to connect the amp to the laptop. I'll only use the amp's volume control, and use a fixed setting in Windows. My mic can be connected directly to the laptop, so is not an issue.

Unfortunately, digitally compressed sound can cause hearing damage even at lower levels where peak limiters are not triggered because of the unnaturally high-energy mid-range frequencies. I'm using Equalizer APO for baseline calibration to the headphones (Sennheiser HD 25, 70Ohm) and to get a neutral baseline EQ, which should in theory help with this, but the amp also needs to do its bit and make the sound more natural and rounder, while keeping it safe.
The question is whether loudness control does indeed meet these requirements, and whether variable loudness control in particular would help keep speech intelligible at all times at the same constant volume, without any strain on the ears.

Importantly, the whole setup will have to have close to zero latency (not usually an issue with analogue systems, but had to mention anyway).

Any advice and ideas on the above would be much appreciated, and recommendations for specific amplifiers most welcome.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Zoom meetings also already have latency in some cases (especially if there's slow connections) on one or both ends. Also, audio interfaces (especially USB) and ADC/ADAC can introduce latency on digital audio like this. And you really need compression/limiting on both ends, and both speakers knowing good microphone techniques for best results. And quality audio in the chain for best results.
 
What is your budget?

There are lots of new headphone amp/dac/preamp combos out these days. Many have an internal EQ setting that might be useful. Variable loudness is something I've only seen on vintage amps from 1980 and earlier mostly.
 
I would look for a Mcintosh MA 6200 thats been restored. It has Power Guard which keeps the amp from clipping guarantying very low distortion. Thats your limiter. It has 5 graphic controls, low bass, mid bass mid range lower treble and high frequencies. It also has a loudness control and can drive loads down to 2,5 ohms. It has head phone out puts and a veryiable loudness as I remember. It has a rather smooth sound for a direct coupled SS integrated amp. I think they were rated around 100 watts per channel. You can look at the Mcintosh Compendium for all the specs and features. Audio Classics may have one or two. When you buy Mcintosh its an investment so the price isn't going to cheap. But if restored properly ought to last you 30 or more years while still meeting factory specs.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Zoom meetings also already have latency in some cases (especially if there's slow connections) on one or both ends. Also, audio interfaces (especially USB) and ADC/ADAC can introduce latency on digital audio like this. And you really need compression/limiting on both ends, and both speakers knowing good microphone techniques for best results. And quality audio in the chain for best results.
Click to expand...
That I'm aware of, I'm afraid. :) I need the amp precisely because I want to get the best out the situation. I need tone controls like in an interpreting booth (https://eventtechnology.org/interpretation-equipment/interpreter-consoles/), and I should do my best not to add to the already inherent latency. I plan to get a decent USB dac to get the sound to the amp, and use a USB mic.

And it's not just typical zoom meetings, that's actually usually lower-level interpreting and mostly in consecutive mode. I'm a conference interpreter and do remote simultaneous interpreting as well (RSI). Some of the events are big and professional, and it can happen that a soft-spoken female speaker is followed buy a blast of incredibly loud music and cheering (not kidding). So I need to protect my hearing as well use tone and potentially loudness control.
Yes, people sometimes don't have proper mics, and use wifi... and all I can do is either simply say that I can't work (if the sound is really that bad). I'm dutybound to do my best at my end.
 
TerpSound said:
That I'm aware of, I'm afraid. :) I need the amp precisely because I want to get the best out the situation. I need tone controls like in an interpreting booth (https://eventtechnology.org/interpretation-equipment/interpreter-consoles/), and I should do my best not to add to the already inherent latency. I plan to get a decent USB dac to get the sound to the amp, and use a USB mic.

And it's not just typical zoom meetings, that's actually usually lower-level interpreting and mostly in consecutive mode. I'm a conference interpreter and do remote simultaneous interpreting as well (RSI). Some of the events are big and professional, and it can happen that a soft-spoken female speaker is followed buy a blast of incredibly loud music and cheering (not kidding). So I need to protect my hearing as well use tone and potentially loudness control.
Yes, people sometimes don't have proper mics, and use wifi... and all I can do is either simply say that I can't work (if the sound is really that bad). I'm dutybound to do my best at my end.
Click to expand...
You most likely need a proper conferencing system which can handle this application. Not cheap to design, build, and do properly. Quality compressor/peak limiters are dear (traditionally very expensive devices when proper). You need something beyond home type equipment for much of your application. And I understand the need for this to be reliable and easy to use. You may need to speak with someone in the conferencing business.
 
BmWr75 said:
What is your budget?

There are lots of new headphone amp/dac/preamp combos out these days. Many have an internal EQ setting that might be useful. Variable loudness is something I've only seen on vintage amps from 1980 and earlier mostly.
Click to expand...
There is no decent headphone amp/dac that has tone controls that I'm aware of. You can buy Fosi Audio and the like, which I'm not considering at the moment. Not a good investment even at the low price.
Again, I'll need pyhsical tone control knobs.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
You most likely need a proper conferencing system which can handle this application. Not cheap to design, build, and do properly. Quality compressor/peak limiters are dear (traditionally very expensive devices when proper). You need something beyond home type equipment for much of your application. And I understand the need for this to be reliable and easy to use. You may need to speak with someone in the conferencing business.
Click to expand...
I have been around tech guys managing the conference equipment on my assignments to have a decent idea, but I'm afraid no client will ever want to pay enough to cover the costs you mention. It needs to be a windows laptop hooked up to a DAC and an amp or both in the same device, or something similar. I'm a pro interpreter (been doing it for 20 years in Europe internationally, occasionally working remotely for US and Canadian clients), but I cannot charge double the rate to have a truly professional home studio. And I don't need it all the time, as I also translate (written texts). I know of a few colleagues who have invested heavily in their setup, but even they usually don't have a rack full of various different gadgets. Bear in mind, while I'm interpreting, I simply can't focus on much else. Simultaneous in particular represents a huge mental load. So whatever I have to do to the sound on the fly needs to be easily manageble with a few knobs on the same device.
 
twiiii said:
I would look for a Mcintosh MA 6200 thats been restored. It has Power Guard which keeps the amp from clipping guarantying very low distortion. Thats your limiter. It has 5 graphic controls, low bass, mid bass mid range lower treble and high frequencies. It also has a loudness control and can drive loads down to 2,5 ohms. It has head phone out puts and a veryiable loudness as I remember. It has a rather smooth sound for a direct coupled SS integrated amp. I think they were rated around 100 watts per channel. You can look at the Mcintosh Compendium for all the specs and features. Audio Classics may have one or two. When you buy Mcintosh its an investment so the price isn't going to cheap. But if restored properly ought to last you 30 or more years while still meeting factory specs.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recommendation! love the sound of that (pun intended), but it is definitely out of reach for now. Vintage is not an issue at all, but a Sansui, Yamaha or Marantz or similar would be more realistic. Whatever has decent sound on the headphone out, has three-band tone control and loudness control (knobs, not buttons of faders). Rotel? Pioneer? Onkyo? Luxman? Even Fisher?
Again, a big integrated amp is mostly necessary, because there is no decent headphone amp apparently that has tone controls. And I could also use an integrated amp with speakers (as a second system).
 
TerpSound said:
Thanks for the recommendation! love the sound of that (pun intended), but it is definitely out of reach for now. Vintage is not an issue at all, but a Sansui, Yamaha or Marantz or similar would be more realistic. Whatever has decent sound on the headphone out, has three-band tone control and loudness control (knobs, not buttons of faders). Rotel? Pioneer? Onkyo? Luxman? Even Fisher?
Again, a big integrated amp is mostly necessary, because there is no decent headphone amp apparently that has tone controls. And I could also use an integrated amp with speakers (as a second system).
Click to expand...
I understand you're on a budget. Ever listened to TV weather casters and news casters during the pandemic? They have the skill set and the voices, they had it hard enough working from home as it was. And that was with the TV Station's resources. I feel your pain with your job, and zoom meetings. And provide you with best wishes and empathize with you.

And be realistic vintage Marantz is expensive as is vintage Sansui in full working condition, which is serviced properly and working well. Especially if you must pay service technician's labor (most every good repair technician is often very backlogged). Remember a lot of that vintage gear, is often 30 and more years old itself. It's also very coveted, and in very high demand. 3 band tone control is usually found mainly on later 1970's higher end models (and the prices go dear). I am saddened the tools you need cost dear amounts of money.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
I understand you're on a budget. Ever listened to TV weather casters and news casters during the pandemic? They have the skill set and the voices, they had it hard enough working from home as it was. And that was with the TV Station's resources. I feel your pain with your job, and zoom meetings. And provide you with best wishes and empathize with you.

And be realistic vintage Marantz is expensive as is vintage Sansui in full working condition, which is serviced properly and working well. Especially if you must pay service technician's labor (most every good repair technician is often very backlogged). Remember a lot of that vintage gear, is often 30 and more years old itself. It's also very coveted, and in very high demand. 3 band tone control is usually found mainly on later 1970's higher end models (and the prices go dear). I am saddened the tools you need cost dear amounts of money.
Click to expand...
Well.. my budget is not THAT tight, so 300-400 EUR (or even a little more) will be fine. And the amp will need to do well almost exclusively on the headphone out. As @BmWr75 says, a Marantz 1060 may work for example (thinks for the recommendation!).
I have to consider actual availability, and I'll clearly prefer local sources (I'm in the EU), so that's a factor too. There is e.g. a Marantz SR-620 available that's within budget.


Is there a database where I could search for amps with the features that I want, perhaps? That could be useful. And then I would check availability and reviews.

​

 
yamaha c-65 preamp

* built in headphone amp
* bass + treble has VARIABLE turnover frequencies
* variable loudness does more to cut highs/mids vs. boosting bass at extreme settings
* use whatever amp you wish
* as a bonus, GREAT phono stage
 
painttoad said:
yamaha c-65 preamp

* built in headphone amp
* bass + treble has VARIABLE turnover frequencies
* variable loudness does more to cut highs/mids vs. boosting bass at extreme settings
* use whatever amp you wish
* as a bonus, GREAT phono stage
Click to expand...
I must admit, I haven't even considered preamps, and I'm not sure what the advantages would be. One disadvantage is clearly that I could only use it with headphones. And I get the impression that a separate headphone amp is not obviously an advantage, and this one may not even have tone control. What relevance do the turnover frequencies have when I'm listening through a headphone?
 
Yamaha C-65 was mentioned earlier...

Given the apparent need (or desire) for fairly specific tone control, I'd suggest Yamaha C-80/C-85 (or others) having true parametric tone controls so boost/cut, center frequency, and Q (bandwidth) can be dialed in.

And, of course those still have the variable loudness, etc.
 
Last edited:
EQ/loudness will do nothing regarding peak limiting. An outboard compressor might be an option, but would add expense and complexity. A software compressor might be a possibility though. Or maybe a peak limiter isn't necessary anyway.
How about a small mixer? That would have more EQ flexibility than an integrated amp, and pretty much all mixers come with a headphone output. Add any amplifier if you want speakers, or just add powered speakers.
Think about a mixer. There are lots to choose from and they're cheap.
www.thomann.co.uk

Thomann Buy Analogue Mixing Desks at Thomann

Buy Analogue Mixing Desks + accessories online from Europe's largest music retailer ✔ Fast shipping ✔ 30 days money-back ✔ 3-year Thomann warranty
www.thomann.co.uk www.thomann.co.uk
 
rothwellaudio said:
EQ/loudness will do nothing regarding peak limiting. An outboard compressor might be an option, but would add expense and complexity. A software compressor might be a possibility though. Or maybe a peak limiter isn't necessary anyway.
How about a small mixer? That would have more EQ flexibility than an integrated amp, and pretty much all mixers come with a headphone output. Add any amplifier if you want speakers, or just add powered speakers.
Think about a mixer. There are lots to choose from and they're cheap.
www.thomann.co.uk

Thomann Buy Analogue Mixing Desks at Thomann

Buy Analogue Mixing Desks + accessories online from Europe's largest music retailer ✔ Fast shipping ✔ 30 days money-back ✔ 3-year Thomann warranty
www.thomann.co.uk www.thomann.co.uk
Click to expand...
Great minds... I have already considered mixers, and did not find any that would give me everything I need, while they would give me loads of functions I will never use.
Some have a USB DAC, which is great, but then it's not obvious that you can use tone control on the headphone out, or that you can listen to the USB input AND use tone control AND NOT send it back out mixed with the mic you connect. I could use a USB mic, sure, but then why have a mixer that has a mic input that I can't use and also several channels of line out that I will never use.
In essence, I don't need to mix anything with anything. I just need decent sound with physical tone control on my headphones, some automatic software EQ possibly, and a decent mic that could be a USB one. You'd think that's easy. Turns out, it's not.
A software limiter would only work if did not have an amp/dac of any kind, or at least it would be set to a fixed volume level (that you could measure to be safe), which is exactly NOT what I want. I also can't pay attention to any additional software (EQ or other), as I need all my focus and mental capacity for my work.
I have considered MIDI controllers as well, but none are what I need, and have a lot of stuff I will never use. And they can also be expensive, and I could not use them for anything else.
 
Frankly, it sounds like one of the aforememtioned preamps checks the majority of the boxes without being digital, without involving SW, without being too futzy, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom