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Any VPI 299D Integrated Amplifier Owners?

MurrayLives said:
1: The phono stage is very solid state sounding (and I'm pretty sure it actually is solid state). Also noisy.
2: The volume control isn't granular enough, so using the remote is way too tricky in getting the volume just right. I would set the volume by hand, which is annoying.
3/4/5: All are rectified, the VPI is tube rectified but I wouldn't call it better, just what you want or what you're going for. I usually call it a "romantic sounding" amp.
6: I've compared directly against single ended and push pull tube amps from various makers.
7: I was just blocking my serial number with the screwdriver.
8: About a year
9: I've used KT88's, EL34's, 6CA7's, and KT77's. My favorites type were the 6CA7's.
10: It's a good value and I'll probably use it in my downstairs system. I got mine for 3k, and I think that's a more appropriate price on it.
11: The headphone amp is fine, but I only ever used it with low impedance cans.
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Thanks for all the answers MurrayLivesThis definitely helps, I wish I could audit it. If I buy it I will take the Marantz to the basement and have this as my main unit.
You got a very good price for it!. My final question for you is if you think it still would worth the $3K you pay for it if it did not have a Phono stage?

Thanks and have a good night.
 
MurrayLives can you state what you mean by a noisy phono stage please. Mine is as quiet as a church mouse, but maybe we're not talking about the same thing?

I have to say I don't share your experience on fine tuning gain with the remote. I've had zero issues with it. Could this perhaps be a speaker specific thing I wonder?

Interested in what you said about 6CA7s. Another rolling option. Did you know that Steve Leung runs his 299D with KT150s and strongly recommended using them to me. The only downside is not being able to use the safety cage when they're installed, but that's a non issue for me as I have a dedicated room.
 
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Janotoro said:
Thanks for all the answers MurrayLivesThis definitely helps, I wish I could audit it. If I buy it I will take the Marantz to the basement and have this as my main unit.
You got a very good price for it!. My final question for you is if you think it still would worth the $3K you pay for it if it did not have a Phono stage?

Thanks and have a good night.
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To give my take on your question to MurrayLives about the importance of phono stage to price, I'd say irrelevant in that I treated having one as a bonus. That it works so well in my system is definitely a plus, but I suspect I'll still experiment with other external stages somewhere down the road. Hope that helps. What say you MurrayLives?
 
Catalysis said:
Hi SoCal Sam, I think the confusion arose because the original 299D looks nothing like the VPI amp, of course (or maybe I should have written that the other way round :)). The true similarity is clearly in the amp voicing and yet I'd say it's still a very dynamic and modern take on those classic sonic characteristics, thanks in no small measure to what I strongly suspect are pretty identical output transformers and power supply to the Primaluna Dialogue. This affords a boatload of oomph when necessary.

I think your post pretty much nails it concerning the tube rectification. It was definitely an important consideration in my opting to go for the 299D. None of the Primaluna integrateds have tube rectification.

You're right that use of a tube rectifier avoids possible solid state/tube hybrid accusations, if such things are important to you (they certainly are to me and you too by the sounds of things). It also affords another very interesting rolling option, of course.

My view if you're going down the tube road is to go all in if possible. Rectification is an important part of that equation.
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That is a good Point Catalysis, if the idea is going all in for tubes, rectification is part of the package. You also want to stay close to what high fidelity is all about and the balance seems tricky. This is turning into a very hard (but fun) decision and I thank everyone for participating in this forum and offer your knowledge and opinions.
 
Janotoro said:
Thanks for all the answers MurrayLivesThis definitely helps, I wish I could audit it. If I buy it I will take the Marantz to the basement and have this as my main unit.
You got a very good price for it!. My final question for you is if you think it still would worth the $3K you pay for it if it did not have a Phono stage?

Thanks and have a good night.
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Here’s one for $2,700. You’ll never find it for cheaper: https://www.soundstagedirect.com//vpi-299D-integrated-amp-open-audio-equipment.shtml

It’s worth 3K without the phono stage.
 
SoCal Sam said:
Congrats on your acquisition and thanks for sharing. I have always wondered why there are so few modern amps with tube rectifiers. IMO and IME every tube rectified amp I have owned or heard has strong centering image and an airiness that is missing in solid state rectified amps. This is a sweeping statement which I have investigated with my MAC's and Fishers and have always arrived at the same conclusion.
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Hi SoCal Sam. Thanks for joining in and for the advice. Could you expand on what you mean with "airness" (still learning). Thanks!
 
Janotoro said:
That is a good Point Catalysis, if the idea is going all in for tubes, rectification is part of the package. You also want to stay close to what high fidelity is all about and the balance seems tricky. This is turning into a very hard (but fun) decision and I thank everyone for participating in this forum and offer your knowledge and opinions.
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This is definitely an important comparison point with the Primaluna Dialogue and Prologue integrated amps. Neither of them have tube rectification. That's something reserved for their preamps, probably to help give some product feature differentiation. It's also another rolling option in the future.
 
Catalysis said:
To give my take on your question to MurrayLives about the importance of phono stage to price, I'd say irrelevant in that I treated having one as a bonus. That it works so well in my system is definitely a plus, but I suspect I'll still experiment with other external stages somewhere down the road. Hope that helps. What say you MurrayLives?
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I’d say a $500 phono stage can beat the built in one. In an integrated amp, I don’t believe that there’s anything that’s bonus. If I’m buying extra components, then may as well stick with separates. In my common space system it will probably work great as an integrated though.

Catalysis said:
MurrayLives can you state what you mean by a noisy phono stage please. Mine is as quiet as a church mouse, but maybe we're not talking about the same thing?

I have to say I don't share your experience on fine tuning gain with the remote. I've had zero issues with it. Could this perhaps be a speaker specific thing I wonder?

Interested in what you said about 6CA7s. Another rolling option. Did you know that Steve Leung runs his 299D with KT150s and strongly recommended using them to me. The only downside is not being able to use the safety cage when they're installed, but that's a non issue for me as I have a dedicated room.
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I can hear hiss from the phono stage at around 11 o’clock on the dial, and that’s not with my ear on the speaker. Also not the sound of tube noise but solid state hash.

A quad of KT150’s runs about $400, more than i would want to spend on a quad.
 
MurrayLives said:
I’d say a $500 phono stage can beat the built in one. In an integrated amp, I don’t believe that there’s anything that’s bonus. If I’m buying extra components, then may as well stick with separates. In my common space system it will probably work great as an integrated though.


I can hear hiss from the phono stage at around 11 o’clock on the dial, and that’s not with my ear on the speaker. Also not the sound of tube noise but solid state hash.

A quad of KT150’s runs about $400, more than i would want to spend on a quad.
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Thanks for responding. Don't hear that hiss myself so maybe system specific?

Agreed on cost of the KT150s but I'm pretty sure it's easily going to be a $400 improvement and as mine aren't the most sensitive speakers (89dB) probably a good match. That said the stock EL34s sound magical and not starved of power at all with the output section and power supply being so beefy. White Stripes Seven Nation Army, for example, demonstrates the amp's simultaneous grace and power. I've never heard it sound better even on bridged solid state behemoths. What's more there's no need to really drive the speakers to get that effect (a bad idea anyway). There's so much detail even at modest gain levels.

Oh and that brings up another point. This amp seems to play any type of music equally well. That may be helped by my Thiels, which have always been like that, but the 299D certainly doesn't change things. Previous experience with tubes has never been so wide ranging.
 
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Janotoro said:
Hi SoCal Sam. Thanks for joining in and for the advice. Could you expand on what you mean with "airness" (still learning). Thanks!
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Airiness is something that I have found repeatedly in a wide variety of tube rectified amps from lowly console amps to various HH Scotts to the awesome MC60. I can only describe what I am hearing. Airiness is the blending of the mid and upper registers which gives the impression of analog sparkle, a glow which allows me to more easily suspend belief that I am listening to music reproduced by inanimate gear. In short, it is a quality that allows me to immerse myself more completely with the music. It is not lost on me that this sounds like a bad cable pitch but I am not here to sell anything.
 
SoCal Sam said:
Airiness is something that I have found repeatedly in a wide variety of tube rectified amps from lowly console amps to various HH Scotts to the awesome MC60. I can only describe what I am hearing. Airiness is the blending of the mid and upper registers which gives the impression of analog sparkle, a glow which allows me to more easily suspend belief that I am listening to music reproduced by inanimate gear. In short, it is a quality that allows me to immerse myself more completely with the music. It is not lost on me that this sounds like a bad cable pitch but I am not here to sell anything.
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I can confirm that this is something I hear with my 299D. Very believable. This happens equally well on digital recordings too. Another good word might be seamless.
 
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SoCal Sam said:
Airiness is something that I have found repeatedly in a wide variety of tube rectified amps from lowly console amps to various HH Scotts to the awesome MC60. I can only describe what I am hearing. Airiness is the blending of the mid and upper registers which gives the impression of analog sparkle, a glow which allows me to more easily suspend belief that I am listening to music reproduced by inanimate gear. In short, it is a quality that allows me to immerse myself more completely with the music. It is not lost on me that this sounds like a bad cable pitch but I am not here to sell anything.
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Thanks for the detailed explanation SoCal Sam, getting close to recreate the listening experience of live music is one of my top priorities. Very helpful!
 
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OK, just off the phone from a great discussion with Steve. He says that, the phono stage is solid state, however it's far from being an after thought and a lot of design and time went into it, including power supply and high quality wiring. It was designed to be very quiet also, so that again suggests you may have something else in your signal path that's causing that hiss MurrayLives because I just don't hear it on mine. I should say that I didn't mention your issues. Steve just volunteered the point about the quietness.

Another thing Steve emphasizes is that the amp needs to settle in for at least 100 hours. I have about 60 hours on mine currently, so there's probably a little more to come. Steve says it sounds smoother and mellower when run in fully.

Hope this helps and, as another thought, what other amp gets you a hotline to the designer - almost like being in an exclusive club. Even better, Steve is a wonderful chap and so happy to talk amps and hifi in general.

So now it's over to you Janotoro. I know what I'd do, but we all have different priorities of course. I just don't think you can lose with the 299D.

Looking forward to hearing your final decision, whenever that may be.
 
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Nope, the noise is solid state hash from the built in phono stage on an amp that I’ve run close to 1,000 hours.

Just like I say, solid state sounding phono stage and noisy in a solid state way. Perhaps my definition of noisy is different than yours, but it’s a level of noise I find unacceptable.
 
MurrayLives said:
Nope, the noise is solid state hash from the built in phono stage on an amp that I’ve run close to 1,000 hours.

Just like I say, solid state sounding phono stage and noisy in a solid state way. Perhaps my definition of noisy is different than yours, but it’s a level of noise I find unacceptable.
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Fair enough, but it's not a repeatable issue on my amp.
 

This was clipped out of a different video, but it’s a good example. Yes I’m comparing to a very expensive phono stage, but SS should be quieter.
 
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