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Any VPI 299D Integrated Amplifier Owners?

Catalysis said:
Very interesting, but again not anything I'm noticing. Maybe you should give Steve a call?
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Thanks MurrayLives for sharing this. Is it your video/unit? If not is the noise the same in yours?
Catalysis, if I understand well... if you do the same exercise as the video you won't get more noise selecting the phono stage and cranking all the volume up compared to when the Phono Stage is not selected?
 
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Janotoro said:
Thanks MurrayLives for sharing this. Is it your video/unit? If not is the noise the same in yours?
Catalysis, if I understand well... if you do the same exercise as the video you won't get more noise selecting the phono stage and cranking all the volume up compared to when the Phono Stage is not selected?
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That’s my video. The unit is actually silent when doing the same test to a regular channel with no active input, this video is comparing two phono stages... regular line inputs are silent all the way to 100%.
 
MurrayLives said:
That’s my video. The unit is actually silent when doing the same test to a regular channel with no active input, this video is comparing two phono stages... regular line inputs are silent all the way to 100%.
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Two thoughts I would like god hear you opinion about:
1. You mentioned the VPI 299D is still worth the $3k you paid for it without the Phono Stage. Do you still think this is the case?
2. Still with the noise the phono stage does, you mentioned I would need to buy a $500 phono stage to improve the sound of this. Is this because it has good sound but generates the brush noise?
The third thought is that it would be a question of luck if I get a unit with the noise or one like Catalysis'.
 
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Personally speaking the phono stage was irrelevant to my purchasing decision, but I would observe in general that this is one of the quietest, very likely THE quietest, amps I've ever owned, tube or solid state. It's basically silent on all inputs other than the phono stage, which if I press my ear against the speaker cover I can just hear the faintest of hissing noises at the 11 o'clock position, for example, but really nothing even remotely like what MurrayLives is demonstrating.

To put this noise in context, it is totally inaudible from my listening position, which is why I said I could hear nothing. The minute hiss that is apparent if my ears are basically attached to the speaker is a non issue in the extreme, although different things annoy people to differing extents of course. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to still purchase the amp if I heard this in a dealer audition. Then again why would I be spending my time with my ears glued to a speaker.

There could be a wide range of reasons behind excessive noise and if it were obtrusive I certainly would be in touch with VPI to at least discuss it. As I said earlier, Steve volunteered that this was a very quiet phono stage and I would endorse that based on this and several other experiences I can relate it to. In fact some of the best phono stages I've owned/heard have been far more noisy and that never bothered me either. You just don't hear it in the context of all that happens when you spin a record.

As I said yesterday, the phono stage cannot be the last word in that sort of equipment but easily punches above its weight in terms of the sound it puts out.

I go back to my suggestion of purchasing from somewhere that allows returns. That way you can try it out and see if it's a great fit for your needs with minimal risk. Even if you can't find a place that will offer that, you'll have no issues in reselling if you buy well.

Here's a really good philosophical piece on hiss, with which I 100% agree:

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/idle-hiss
 
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Catalysis said:
Personally speaking the phono stage was irrelevant to my purchasing decision, but I would observe in general that this is one of the quietest, very likely THE quietest, amps I've ever owned, tube or solid state. It's basically silent on all inputs other than the phono stage, which if I press my ear against the speaker cover I can just hear the faintest of hissing noises at the 11 o'clock position, for example, but really nothing even remotely like what MurrayLives is demonstrating.

To put this noise in context, it is totally inaudible from my listening position, which is why I said I could hear nothing. The minute hiss that is apparent if my ears are basically attached to the speaker is a non issue in the extreme, although different things annoy people to differing extents of course. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to still purchase the amp if I heard this in a dealer audition.

There could be a wide range of reasons behind excessive noise and if it were obtrusive I certainly would be in touch with VPI to at least discuss it. As I said earlier, Steve volunteered that this was a very quiet phono stage and I would endorse that based on this and several other experiences I can relate it to. In fact some of the best phono stages I've owned/heard have been far more noisy and that never bothered me either. You just don't hear it in the context of all that happens when you spin a record.

As I said yesterday, the phono stage cannot be the last word in that sort of equipment but easily punches above its weight in terms of the sound it puts out.

I go back to my suggestion of purchasing from somewhere that allows returns. That way you can try it out and see if it's a great fit for your needs with minimal risk.
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Thanks Catalysis. Enough Said. It seems like if I were to have the same problem as MurrayLives, I would have Stephen to back it up (plus I am only 1 Hour away from VPI) and I would also have a genuine reason to return the unit as defective, thus, without any restocking fee.
MurrayLives, have you brought the Phono Stage issue with your dealer?

Many Thanks!
 
Janotoro said:
Thanks Catalysis. Enough Said. It seems like if I were to have the same problem as MurrayLives, I would have Stephen to back it up (plus I am only 1 Hour away from VPI) and I would also have a genuine reason to return the unit as defective, thus, without any restocking fee.
MurrayLives, have you brought the Phono Stage issue with your dealer?

Many Thanks!
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You're welcome. I shall await your eventual decision with interest.
 
MurrayLives said:
That’s why you don’t hear it, the speakers I was using were 98.
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Possibly. Interesting that you're the only owner who complains about this though, isn't it.

As Steve owns three pairs of Tannoys, I suspect much of the voicing has been done with high sensitivity speakers.

I'd strongly recommend giving him a call.
 
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Catalysis said:
Noise and impedance aren't related.
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Noise and efficiency are for purposes of this testing. 11 on my combination is wide open on yours.

Put high efficiency speakers in your system and run the same test, you’ll probably get the same result.
 
Catalysis said:
Possibly. Interesting that you're the only owner who complains about this though, isn't it.

/snip
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And what exactly is that supposed to mean?

I posted video, with my methods and comparisons, and explained why I wasn’t happy with it because of noise and the sound of the phono stage. If you like it, good for you. I’ve given the OP my views on this matter, and I’m done riding this hobby horse.
 
MurrayLives said:
And what exactly is that supposed to mean?

I posted video, with my methods and comparisons, and explained why I wasn’t happy with it because of noise and the sound of the phono stage. If you like it, good for you. I’ve given the OP my views on this matter, and I’m done riding this hobby horse.
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Fair enough, but I think this discussion on the phono stage is in danger of adversely affecting the OP's opinion of what I would regard as a great amp. I'm sure you'd generally agree on that point at least and we've both said that the performance of the phono stage is an asset/liability, delete as applicable in each case, but effectively a bonus as most owners will have alternatives.

My view is that you have a system specific issue and that needs to be borne in mind here. I don't read anywhere else about this problem and I'm sure you're not the only one with sensitive speakers. Your video is helpful, however there are all sorts of variables including how you've set up and positioned your mic of course.

Anyway let's just agree to differ and the OP certainly has more than enough info.
 
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You both (@Catalysis and @MurrayLives) have been incredibly good sports and I really apreciate your help.
I may have been hung on the Phono Stage issue, but at the same time I ended up with enough information to come to my conclusion in a way I have clear paths and next steps to positive and not so positive outcomes.
I am getting the VPI 299D and will post my impressions and integrated phono stage experience as soon as I start listening to it.
 
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Janotoro said:
You both (@Catalysis and @MurrayLives) have been incredibly good sports and I really apreciate your help.
I may have been hung on the Phono Stage issue, but at the same time I ended up with enough information to come to my conclusion in a way I have clear paths and next steps to positive and not so positive outcomes.
I am getting the VPI 299D and will post my impressions and integrated phono stage experience as soon as I start listening to it.
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Thanks for letting us all know. I think you'll be delighted with it. Keep us posted on this thread if you will.
 
I guess it all depends on the speakers you have. If you have dry austere modern speakers I can see where you might find VPI's amp just the right answer. But I owned a 299D back in the days when I had Altec, Bozaks, and Stepens. Compared to my MA 230 the 299 was a flop. Even my MC 60's blew it off the map. It was a looser then and is even more so now. There is only one tube amp from the 20 th century I would consider and thats a MC 3500. And its not because of the power, but because of the quality. Ive owned Scotts, Fishers, built Dynas of all types, Installed Sherwood, Marantz and owned 5 different Mac tube amps, had friends with Citations,Pilots, Eico and heath kits. If I ever see another tube unit it will be tooooo sooooon.

It all depends on how a particular speaker A combines with a particular amp B being supplied by a source C. It was true then and is true now. The old rule of thumb then was the Speakers should be valued at 1/2 the price of your system. So if you have $10,000 to 12000 tied up in turntable and integrated amp, you should have the same amount invested in your speakers. I guess that means a pair of Klipsch kornerhorns, Cornwalls. big collectors JBL's, Altecs or EV's. If you don't your system is most likely dynamically challenged. 40 watts doesn't go very far with a speaker rated at 86 db/1 watt 1 meter. I will say a tube unit can help big Tannoys that can be excessive in the top two octaves.
 
twiiii said:
I guess it all depends on the speakers you have. If you have dry austere modern speakers I can see where you might find VPI's amp just the right answer. But I owned a 299D back in the days when I had Altec, Bozaks, and Stepens. Compared to my MA 230 the 299 was a flop. Even my MC 60's blew it off the map. It was a looser then and is even more so now. There is only one tube amp from the 20 th century I would consider and thats a MC 3500. And its not because of the power, but because of the quality. Ive owned Scotts, Fishers, built Dynas of all types, Installed Sherwood, Marantz and owned 5 different Mac tube amps, had friends with Citations,Pilots, Eico and heath kits. If I ever see another tube unit it will be tooooo sooooon.

It all depends on how a particular speaker A combines with a particular amp B being supplied by a source C. It was true then and is true now. The old rule of thumb then was the Speakers should be valued at 1/2 the price of your system. So if you have $10,000 to 12000 tied up in turntable and integrated amp, you should have the same amount invested in your speakers. I guess that means a pair of Klipsch kornerhorns, Cornwalls. big collectors JBL's, Altecs or EV's. If you don't your system is most likely dynamically challenged. 40 watts doesn't go very far with a speaker rated at 86 db/1 watt 1 meter. I will say a tube unit can help big Tannoys that can be excessive in the top two octaves.
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This isn't a replica of the 299D, it's a homage to it with the best modern components, including a big power supply and output transformers (toroidal). Have a look at the online reviews and you'll see how well received it's been.
 
Hi Twiii. Thanks for joining in and sharing your perspective on the Scott 299 and the system investment balance. It seems like it would take me some time to change my speakers. I am however banking on the fact that tha overall performance of my set up will improve considerably and I will continue to balance it in the future. I will report on the sound of the system with the VPI 299D soon.
 
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