Any VPI 299D Integrated Amplifier Owners?
Catalysis
Member
I doubt they would. This was a "retirement" project for Harry Weisfeld that Mat Weisfeld didn't want to go into production with, so there's no been no real marketing of what is, at the end of the day, a strictly, never to be repeated, run of 100 amps.
In any case published tests don't mean a lot compared with what one hears with one's ears. It's subjectively awesome.
Here's what Steve Guttenberg had to say:
"No other tube amp in my experience can compete on the basis of features, build and sound quality for the price."
https://www.cnet.com/news/even-at-4000-this-tube-amplifier-is-a-remarkable-value/
Anyway it would be fun if VPI came forward, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one
Janotoro
Member
That is a good point... I believe Matt mentioned something about on the VPI Forum.I doubt they would. This was a "retirement" project for Harry Weisfeld that Mat Weisfeld didn't want to go into production with, so there's no been no real marketing of what is, at the end of the day, a strictly, never to be repeated, run of 100 amps.
In any case published tests don't mean a lot compared with what one hears with one's ears. It's subjectively awesome.
Here's what Steve Guttenberg had to say:
"No other tube amp in my experience can compete on the basis of features, build and sound quality for the price."
https://www.cnet.com/news/even-at-4000-this-tube-amplifier-is-a-remarkable-value/
Anyway it would be fun if VPI came forward, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one
For what is worth VPI took and used the VPI 299D to a few shows. IMHO that speaks volumes of their confidence in the project. I am sure it is not w/o details, including the issue with the made in USA standards of the Company for the TTs vs the 299D.
@twiiii Is there a library or place where you can see an independent standard test of the main or well-established Hi-Fi amps manufacturers? It would be very interesting to see and compare.
SoCal Sam
Lunatic Member
I doubt they would. This was a "retirement" project for Harry Weisfeld that Mat Weisfeld didn't want to go into production with, so there's no been no real marketing of what is, at the end of the day, a strictly, never to be repeated, run of 100 amps.
In any case published tests don't mean a lot compared with what one hears with one's ears. It's subjectively awesome.
Here's what Steve Guttenberg had to say:
"No other tube amp in my experience can compete on the basis of features, build and sound quality for the price."
https://www.cnet.com/news/even-at-4000-this-tube-amplifier-is-a-remarkable-value/
Anyway it would be fun if VPI came forward, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one
The back story of the Weisfeld's if true diminishes the product and represents close minded thinking. Anyone who has rebuilt a tube amp knows the cost of components with the transformers and tubes being the highest dollar components. Working backwards from the $4,000 MSRP, dealer cost is half so VPI gets $2,000. There are about $500 in components and likely a lot less if off the shelf Chinese. The assembly cost will not be cheap if made in USA but let's say another $500. The company is making a grand per amp. (You have to ask how Ming Da and Yaquin are able to make amps for a few hundred dollars.)
Here is the opportunity they are losing. The 299D is one of the few tube rectified amps that can be bought new. You can't get a tube rectified Mac. As I mentioned before, my LK-72B's (kit version of the real 299D) walks all over the 275V, IMO it is that good and that different. This is a real angle on the market that they could be taking. This is an opportunity lost. Drawing on the 299D heritage is a great move, if in fact they own the intellectual rights to the name and design. Maybe the design has lapsed into the public domain. Whatever, they need to secure the intellectual property. Make the amp a true re-issue with proper cosmetics that pays homage to the HH Scott. The VPI 299D looks like a nicer Yaquin and that is a problem. This way, they can market to the legions of HH Scott fans who love the sound but do not want to take on a 50 year old amp that runs a little hot on today's 120 plus Volt wall current. There are 299D's, 299C's, LK-72, and LK-72B's in the thousands out there and those who know love them.
Catalysis
Member
I still think you're missing the point here. This is a homage to the voicing of the original 299D with a very modern twist using some great components. In no way is it a replica. This was a one off, in the realms of a vanity retirement project that kind of got into very very limited production somehow. Mat Weisfeld has made it clear they are not getting into amps and thus this model is set to become a collector's item. Time will tell if it's going to be valuable.
SoCal Sam
Lunatic Member
Vanity project. Swan song. Even more reason to do it right, especially at the price. Whether it becomes a collector's item is something else. I have no doubt the VPI 299D sounds superb but it needs more to become an instant classic. See Marantz 9 re-issue.
Janotoro
Member
So... it's here and it is installed!!! First impressions from unboxing to the first 120 minutes of listening:
1. Very well packaged and with decent instructions.
2. One does not realizes what over 60 pounds feels like for something not that big. It is definitely built very well, it looks and feels great.
3. No hicups connecting or turning it on for the first time
4. I really liked the bias adjustment on the fly, easy and fun to do ( I like the manual adjustment part of it)
5. Remote control material looks great and feels OK, there is a rattle coming out of it and I realized it is the buttons which are semi-loose. The remote control is close to be great but seems like some corner cutting was done last minute.
6. The design of the amp is beautiful and I really like the controls, both manual and from the RC.
7. Now the Most Important Part: so far the sound is amazing! I have played several personal test songs from Spotify and CDs. One in particular stand out, Sumi Jo's Voice in Simple Song #3 is extraordinary, as she was right here.
8. CD and Auxiliary inputs are extremely silent even at 100%
9. This guy is powerful and smashes all my perceptions of what 38W could sound like volumewise.
10.The moment of truth: listening to the VPI Prime with the VPI 299D. First I did not check for any noise, just started playing Eye in the Sky at low-mid volume... I have never heard this song this way... very impressive and in line with the rest... but then the songs ends and The hiss noise is very clear and present, I turn it up (hopefully w/o waking up the little one) and realize the hiss gets in the middle of softer songs. I have to try something else so I play Pink Floyd's Animals and the hiss becomes part of it.
I tried rock or electronic music and for the most part it mask the hiss but a simple winding down jazz or classical piece will reveal the noise.
I have sent an email to VPI and will report on the outcome/solution. I am connecting my old Music Hall PHono Pack and got rid of the hiss but I was really looking for a phono stage improvement over the $120 and 9 years hold basic phono preamp... especially with the VPI 299D price.
I was warned (@MurrayLives ) but I was hoping to get a unit like the one @Catalysis has. I bet on the amp, on the VPI customer care and on VPI backing their products.
1. Very well packaged and with decent instructions.
2. One does not realizes what over 60 pounds feels like for something not that big. It is definitely built very well, it looks and feels great.
3. No hicups connecting or turning it on for the first time
4. I really liked the bias adjustment on the fly, easy and fun to do ( I like the manual adjustment part of it)
5. Remote control material looks great and feels OK, there is a rattle coming out of it and I realized it is the buttons which are semi-loose. The remote control is close to be great but seems like some corner cutting was done last minute.
6. The design of the amp is beautiful and I really like the controls, both manual and from the RC.
7. Now the Most Important Part: so far the sound is amazing! I have played several personal test songs from Spotify and CDs. One in particular stand out, Sumi Jo's Voice in Simple Song #3 is extraordinary, as she was right here.
8. CD and Auxiliary inputs are extremely silent even at 100%
9. This guy is powerful and smashes all my perceptions of what 38W could sound like volumewise.
10.The moment of truth: listening to the VPI Prime with the VPI 299D. First I did not check for any noise, just started playing Eye in the Sky at low-mid volume... I have never heard this song this way... very impressive and in line with the rest... but then the songs ends and The hiss noise is very clear and present, I turn it up (hopefully w/o waking up the little one) and realize the hiss gets in the middle of softer songs. I have to try something else so I play Pink Floyd's Animals and the hiss becomes part of it.
I tried rock or electronic music and for the most part it mask the hiss but a simple winding down jazz or classical piece will reveal the noise.
I have sent an email to VPI and will report on the outcome/solution. I am connecting my old Music Hall PHono Pack and got rid of the hiss but I was really looking for a phono stage improvement over the $120 and 9 years hold basic phono preamp... especially with the VPI 299D price.
I was warned (@MurrayLives ) but I was hoping to get a unit like the one @Catalysis has. I bet on the amp, on the VPI customer care and on VPI backing their products.
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Catalysis
Member
Firstly I'm certainly pleased that your generally very positive impressions match my own. On your phono stage noise I absolutely don't hear this in any clear manner and maybe MurrayLives is right that my less than super sensitive speakers (89dB) may be masking it, but I still think it would be more obvious given your experiences. Maybe it shows up on different types of cart? In fairness I don't have a clue why this is so, but at least you can hear that it's a very, very good phono stage despite your issue. As I've said all along, it's a nice bonus that it's so good and I want to use it, but for me never a part of the purchasing equation.
I also don't recognize your comments on the rattling remote. There might be a very slight sound of that nature if one moves it in a certain way, but maybe your more bothered about such things than I? For me it's still a heck of a lot better than 99% of the remotes out there and nicely complements the style of the amp itself.
Let us all know what VPI says. I'd actually recommend using the phone number in the manual and calling Steve on his direct line. That said, I'm absolutely sure that your email will end up on his desk in any case.
To end on a positive note, it's only going to sound better as it runs in. Steve reckons it needs a good 100 hours+ to fully settle.
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Janotoro
Member
I am getting close to the first 20 hours of usage and the sound is getting better. I am still trying to get the phono stage figured out. My speakers sensitivity is at 90db, but I doubt it is a speaker issue, if that was the case, the sound of the other inputs at 100% would also be louder than in yours or mine and based on @MurrayLives video that is not the case. For me the phono stage is an important part of the equation because of the fact that VPI is a TT brand and this should be at least as good as the TTs and the amp (plus it wil be a while before I am in the market to buy a phono pre).
Maybe my remote control is missing a rubber part inside or something... the buttons rattle just by picking it up. I will ask Steve.
My next step is to call Steve per your recommendation... plus that was the outcome of my emails with VPI, to call Steve.
Going back to @edwyun comment about the amp overcoming the phono stage. That is a good argument, however, I believe it is not so much about the ss or bulb nature of the phono stage but the consistency in the sound quality of the equipment, especially when my prime source of music is records. The fact that an integrated product has a superb amplification should be an even greater reason to expect more from the phono stage and thus, make the issue of greater significance and harder to believe. The production of any good is always subject to defects or errors and I think/hope it is something that happened with a few units but that can be solved.
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MurrayLives
Born to lose, live to win
Catalysis
Member
On the rattling remote buttons that's one of those things that either bothers you or it doesn't. I hadn't even noticed the very slight "loose" noise of the buttons until you pointed it out, an effect I don't hear unless I move the remote in such a way to invoke the noise, it just doesn't matter to me. To each his own of course.
I'll be interested to see what the outcome of your issue with the phono stage is. On this one, it's probably something that shows up on some systems more than others, for what reason I wouldn't care to speculate further, other than to say it's interesting that your speakers aren't hugely sensitive and yet you're still hearing the effect. I would bet quite strongly you're going to be asked to send the unit in for Steve to have a look at it.
LP is very important to me too, though I must admit that the 299D has done such great things with digital that I'm currently mostly plowing through the CD collection enjoying the huge difference from what solid state does. That said, I just put a near mint vinyl copy of AJA on and it's super quiet in terms of any amp generated background hiss. Absolutely inaudible from the listening position (and I'm certainly not going to press my ear to the speaker to hear the effect) and overall sounds stunningly good.
I'll be interested to see what the outcome of your issue with the phono stage is. On this one, it's probably something that shows up on some systems more than others, for what reason I wouldn't care to speculate further, other than to say it's interesting that your speakers aren't hugely sensitive and yet you're still hearing the effect. I would bet quite strongly you're going to be asked to send the unit in for Steve to have a look at it.
LP is very important to me too, though I must admit that the 299D has done such great things with digital that I'm currently mostly plowing through the CD collection enjoying the huge difference from what solid state does. That said, I just put a near mint vinyl copy of AJA on and it's super quiet in terms of any amp generated background hiss. Absolutely inaudible from the listening position (and I'm certainly not going to press my ear to the speaker to hear the effect) and overall sounds stunningly good.
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Janotoro
Member
I talked to Steve and reported on a "test" that Marc at VPI had suggested (connecting the 299D and the Prime to the wall directly w/o the conditioner, I also combined one outlet on the wall and the on the conditioner and vice-versa), but the change was barely noticeable, the noise remains basically the same. The suggestion is to send the unit or take it my self. I am 90 minutes away and I will do so in January. Regardless of how close or far I am from Cliffwood NJ, the fact that I can have access to Steve and Marc makes a huge difference.
One thing I notice tonight doing some additional experimentation with my Music-Hall phono preamp is that the amplification of the VPI phono stage is higher and so, comparing the noise at 100% for both makes the VPI look even worse, however that does not take away from the noise issue.
You should have one of the first built units or something like that. My remote control buttons rattle just if I pick up the control and turn my hand a little, even if I do it slowly.
I agree with you about the capacity of the VPI 299D to deliver a very enjoyable listening experience with CDs and even other digital formats... I have been listening to my digital Nicholas Lens collection for the last 2 hours and I have never heard it like this before.
Cheers!
One thing I notice tonight doing some additional experimentation with my Music-Hall phono preamp is that the amplification of the VPI phono stage is higher and so, comparing the noise at 100% for both makes the VPI look even worse, however that does not take away from the noise issue.
You should have one of the first built units or something like that. My remote control buttons rattle just if I pick up the control and turn my hand a little, even if I do it slowly.
I agree with you about the capacity of the VPI 299D to deliver a very enjoyable listening experience with CDs and even other digital formats... I have been listening to my digital Nicholas Lens collection for the last 2 hours and I have never heard it like this before.
Cheers!
edwyun
Super Member
Agreed. But, in practice, that's not always the case due various reasons like design principle, price point, etc. Hence the SUTs, head amps, and phono stages out there. Hope it is a simple fix.