anyone else running vintage Empire carts?
- Thread starter gadget73
- Start date
russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
Thank The God of music for Mr. Gary !
Hey all, I'm back after following advice from this thread and have recently fallen down the empire rabbit hole. I purchased the 235-VDE cartridge from Gary along with a 909/x. I was so impressed with the sound that I started hunting for a 999 or 1000. I eventally found a lot of additional empire cartridges from a record store in Australia that will ship to the US to try out, including a 999ze/x (pictured with white stylus), 1000ze/x (pictured with black stylus), 2000 (pictured with smoke stylus), 4000D/I (boxed but described as missing the diamond).
Am I correct in concluding that the 999ze/x originally came with the purple 235-VDE that I already have? Gary has a great selection of the 235 model stylus in stock right now so I'd like to order something now if I don't have the right gear to match up what I can. Also, how can I tell if the black stylus on the 1000ze/x is the correct stylus given there are other black models? In other pictures all the stylus are properly labeled on the fold down tab as "Empire" and the seller described them all as functioning well (he had several Grace carts/stylus for sale and they all sold, these were the only empire he had).
Lastly, would it be better to spend money on 235s while Gary has them in stock? Or play what I have and save up to hunt for a tip for the 4000D/I? I ordered from Australia so I'll have a month or however long Gary's inventory remains in stock to make a decision before these arrive.
Am I correct in concluding that the 999ze/x originally came with the purple 235-VDE that I already have? Gary has a great selection of the 235 model stylus in stock right now so I'd like to order something now if I don't have the right gear to match up what I can. Also, how can I tell if the black stylus on the 1000ze/x is the correct stylus given there are other black models? In other pictures all the stylus are properly labeled on the fold down tab as "Empire" and the seller described them all as functioning well (he had several Grace carts/stylus for sale and they all sold, these were the only empire he had).
Lastly, would it be better to spend money on 235s while Gary has them in stock? Or play what I have and save up to hunt for a tip for the 4000D/I? I ordered from Australia so I'll have a month or however long Gary's inventory remains in stock to make a decision before these arrive.
Regardless-- irredisregardless, even-- of the fact that the only 999ZE/X I can find has a body like the middle cartridge in your photo, any cartridge that looks like the one on the left or the right can take the 235-VDE (999VE/X) or any of the other 235s or even 234s. My longstanding advice, expecially when these reappear after years of being gone, is to grab 'em now.
As for the 1000ZE/X, if the cantilever doesn't have a paint dot and the front of the flippy guard looks like the photo below, you're good.
As for the 1000ZE/X, if the cantilever doesn't have a paint dot and the front of the flippy guard looks like the photo below, you're good.
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KSM74
Active Member
There is now. But not cheap. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966045367...ng0O1fNtUF/H1nmLEhNhVGSlDQ==|tkp:BFBM8r36gotm
Interesting! the stuck-on label (NMR133-ed and EM122-ed) points to an Astatic NMR generic and partially covers the "a genuine product of Empire Scientific", but the back label N133-ed indicates a made-in-USA genuine stylus, and the photo is so dark and badly angled that we can't see the flippy guard. To quote professor Han Solo, I've got a bad feeling about this.
Thank you wualta, always appreciate the advice! Went back to check the listing and... wow you know your stuff. My assessment of the 999 "ZE/X" was based on the description. The pic of the actual cartridge has damage to the sticker, right on the first letter! So who knows if the prior owner stated that correctly or if it was a typo. I will definitely measure it and report back to add to the knowledge here.
Attachments
Anyone know what the suspensions in these stylus' are comprised of? I was really into restoring old cars 15 years ago and had wonderful success restoring the flexibility and reversing shrinkage on 40 year old rubber car parts by soaking them in a solution of 90/10 alcohol and wintergreen oil. I learned the trick from an old timer on a car forum. I'm thinking, if rubber is a component of the suspension, I could test this out on a stylus that lost its tip. I'm not quite sure how to test it other than adding tracking force, but i figure it's worth a shot if I'm going to buy another NOS stylus that I want to keep around for a while.
I'm wondering what a soak in such high concentration of alcohol would do to any adhesives or other materials. I'd probably dilute the solution with water. But again, it might be worth testing if the suspension contains rubber like many old stylus I have loved and lost.
I'm wondering what a soak in such high concentration of alcohol would do to any adhesives or other materials. I'd probably dilute the solution with water. But again, it might be worth testing if the suspension contains rubber like many old stylus I have loved and lost.
Look up the current ingredients of MG Chemicals' Rubber Renue. Pretty sure the active ingredient is still wintergreen oil. You'll eventually come across yet another giant AK thread wherein the inmates try other preparations: original formula WD-40 and Liquid Wrench silicone and a little something called Rawn Re-Grip.
We do know from former Shure and ADC employees here on AK that butyl rubber is a common component of suspension rubber due to its vibration damping properties. We also know there are other components in engineered rubber that we are not likely to discover, but some kind of oil is one of them (that from the Shure guy); also, unexpectedly, natural rubber. Alcohol was discouraged. But some of us drank it anyway.
I hope your mystery cartridge is a 999TE/X, my sentimental favorite, but it really doesn't matter-- the members of that generation of cartridge bodies are all so close you'll never hear the difference unless you're listening with electrostatic headphones. That's assuming good QC on the day the cartridge was made. It's good to have an inexpensive (<$20) inductance-capacitance-resistance ("LCR") meter to check a cartridge's channel balance by measuring the electrical "size"-- the inductance-- of its coils, the part that actually generates the cartridge's output and helps identify a cartridge with a damaged label. Among other things.
We do know from former Shure and ADC employees here on AK that butyl rubber is a common component of suspension rubber due to its vibration damping properties. We also know there are other components in engineered rubber that we are not likely to discover, but some kind of oil is one of them (that from the Shure guy); also, unexpectedly, natural rubber. Alcohol was discouraged. But some of us drank it anyway.
I hope your mystery cartridge is a 999TE/X, my sentimental favorite, but it really doesn't matter-- the members of that generation of cartridge bodies are all so close you'll never hear the difference unless you're listening with electrostatic headphones. That's assuming good QC on the day the cartridge was made. It's good to have an inexpensive (<$20) inductance-capacitance-resistance ("LCR") meter to check a cartridge's channel balance by measuring the electrical "size"-- the inductance-- of its coils, the part that actually generates the cartridge's output and helps identify a cartridge with a damaged label. Among other things.
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"inmates", "But some of us drank it anyway" 
Funny!
Yes, I have an LCR meter. Ive had a couple of years repairing silverface amps and 70s TTs as a side hobby and the meter is part of my kit. This thread was my first dive into measuring cartridges and I suppose I have Empire to thank for that. I will definitely test its inductance and will look for the thread on rubber suspensions as well
Funny! Yes, I have an LCR meter. Ive had a couple of years repairing silverface amps and 70s TTs as a side hobby and the meter is part of my kit. This thread was my first dive into measuring cartridges and I suppose I have Empire to thank for that. I will definitely test its inductance and will look for the thread on rubber suspensions as well
With an LCR, you're one of us! Or maybe I became one of you. More seriously, measuring inductance (and adding it to the separate database thread about Empire inductance/resistance) will help identify cartridge bodies where the model name/number is on the stylus, not the body. Or, as is the case with too many mid-'70s Empires, where the name on the body is meaningless or shall we say intentionally confusing to avoid price matching. Not that Empire was alone in that.
Alcohol is generally not kind to the rubber blend found in cartridges. Even Rubber Renue avoided alcohols until the latest version (408C). The name of the big thread full of crazy rubber-softening/plumping adventures/disasters and loss tangents is Possible Cure for Collapsed Stylus Suspension.
Alcohol is generally not kind to the rubber blend found in cartridges. Even Rubber Renue avoided alcohols until the latest version (408C). The name of the big thread full of crazy rubber-softening/plumping adventures/disasters and loss tangents is Possible Cure for Collapsed Stylus Suspension.
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russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
Found Here;
Empire Thread of Inductance & Resistance for 2000 style bodies
Starting this thread to help those who may be purchasing a 2000 style blob body and not knowing what stylus to use for it. Empire seemed to add model numbers to these bodies without any clear thought process or reasoning. It's mindboggling to try and make sense of it. But as suggested by...
audiokarma.org
russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
More words of whit from our Reluctant Leader and Master of/at Arms: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...ing-vintage-empire-carts.468129/post-11503110 
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Free Speaker
Member
Speaking of the 1000ZEX, there's this video that compares it to the previous 1000ZE. I don't think I've ever seen this video on this forum before, so will try to add it here. It suggests that the ZE was the last Empire moving magnetic cone stylus and that the ZEX was the first true Empire moving iron stylus. Has anyone ever seen this? Does it make any sense? If the link doesn't work, the video is easily found by googling Empire 1000ze vs 1000zex. Only the slide show in the first few minutes is of much use. The rest is all needle drops that will only sound like whatever your playback device sounds like, so kinda useless. I apologize if the link doesn't work or if this has been mentioned here before. I just thought it was interesting if it's true, and if the ZE and the ZEX bodies really have as much of an inductance difference as it says they do.
Free Speaker
Member
My NOS 2000E2 Diasa stylus that i got from Gary a few years ago is probably the best all-rounder that I have. It handles sibilance and distortion better then most of the other Empires that I have, and sounds close to or even as good as the 1000ZEX and VEX do, if not a little different, considering it's technically more 'modern '.