russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
As useless as boobtube's sound quality may seem to many. My walk away after listening to the 2 carts was this......I heard the 1000ZE.....but felt the 1000 ZE/X.....just sayin'.
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anyone else running vintage Empire carts?
- Thread starter gadget73
- Start date
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
I have a 4000 D/1 and, even though it had a kinked cantilever when I bought it and I straightened the cantilever out and put a bead of ACC around it, it still plays CD-4 records perfectly.
Doug
Rolls-Royce
Active Member
Would that my 4000D/I's original stylus had been easily fixable. The cantilever appears intact, but the diamond is completely gone...
I have one like that. A 440D stylus. Perfectly clean and unused but no diamond.
Now that I think of it, the 440D stylus is another prime candidate for a 4000D/2000X/66 body. If you plan to play CD-4 discs in four-channel, maybe hedge your bets with a low-inductance 66. The 440D has the advantage of appearing in clone form-- that is, the same stylus with the same color but attached to bodies labeled something other than "440D":
2006
4400D/IV
5000 L.A.C.
R-S 44D CD4
77-D4
Now that I think of it, the 440D stylus is another prime candidate for a 4000D/2000X/66 body. If you plan to play CD-4 discs in four-channel, maybe hedge your bets with a low-inductance 66. The 440D has the advantage of appearing in clone form-- that is, the same stylus with the same color but attached to bodies labeled something other than "440D":
2006
4400D/IV
5000 L.A.C.
R-S 44D CD4
77-D4
Happy/relieved to report that tVOM's 232-SDE (white), aka S888TE, is genuine. It's a relative of "Pinkie" in that it's the final-gen "arrowhead" or pointy/zoomy shape, but without the gold-leaf hot stamp identifying it decisively as a genuine Empire. So if you have any 888 bodies...
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russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
I have a 66 stylus but no 66 body or, I should say, no 66 labeled body. I do have my 2000 body with low inductance so it is a 66 body and really, the label on it was accidently removed (I didn't want ANY fingerprints on that beautiful gold body and the Windex removed both) shortly after it was new, in 1976, so it is labelless and can be either.
Doug
Doug
KSM74
Active Member
What kind of nonsense can be seen on YouTube. The Internet will tolerate everything... All the cartridges of the Empire since the mid-60s were moving iron (MI). At first they were called moving cone (MC), but in order not to confuse with moving coil (MC), this name disappeared.
If anyone is curious about this MM/MI uncertainty, I usually recommend punching out a typical household steel-wire staple, straightening one end, and using it as a probe to test for the presence (MM) or absence (IM and VR) of a magnet fitted to the rear end of the cantilever tube. Hold the stylus assembly vertically, diamond-side-up, and see if the staple falls out or simply dangles loosely. My ca. 1965 S88PE shows no magnet at the end of its cantilever. Neither do the two relevant patents, though we have to be careful when tempted to rely on what's writ versus what we hold in our hands. Like we allus say, specs is specs, ads is ads, patents is patents, but production is reality.
This becomes important when those of us with IM/VR cartridges, most notably Empire and ADC, find replacement styli that are sold as IM/VR but stick to staples. Hm.
This becomes important when those of us with IM/VR cartridges, most notably Empire and ADC, find replacement styli that are sold as IM/VR but stick to staples. Hm.
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Does your cat make that face often.
I assume you're asking about the avatar cat. That's a Pallas's cat or manul. They're wild and anything but domesticable, but they make the greatest faces.
Speaking of faces, if you like the face of Pinkie, the 888VE stylus that's unlabeled yet genuine Empire, Gary at thevoiceofmusic.com still has a couple. Ask for 232-SDE (pink).
Speaking of faces, if you like the face of Pinkie, the 888VE stylus that's unlabeled yet genuine Empire, Gary at thevoiceofmusic.com still has a couple. Ask for 232-SDE (pink).
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KSM74
Active Member
Link to 888 cartridge patent - https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/13/15/e8/913646a92d14ba/US3469040.pdf
In the patent drawing you can clearly see what Harry Shaper intended to be the tapered end of the permeable (permalloy, soft iron, &c) collar, forming the "Magnetic Cone", saving some effective (ie, moving) mass, the same idea as a tapered cantilever. "Magnetic" does not necessarily mean something IS a magnet.
I think I've posted this before, but if so it's worth citing again. This site is a list of phonography patents greatest hits, at least in one person's opinion. I find it useful.
I think I've posted this before, but if so it's worth citing again. This site is a list of phonography patents greatest hits, at least in one person's opinion. I find it useful.
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brettMc
New Member
Can someone please sum up what is the proper and/or best sounding stylus for an 2000 E III cartridge? I see two Empire I carts available on the French coin site…but still confused if that is my best option…?
Also, can some tell me if a NOS Empire 2000E III Stylus by Pfanstiehl Waukegan 237-DET will work and how it will compare to a NOS Empire I.
The original poster really did not rank his tests. And the info about all the different ‘colors’ was unclear.
Has anyone done a ‘ranking’ of the best stylus options for an Empire 2000E III?
I would very much appreciate a clear ranking of best sounding stylus options for an Empire 2000E III cartridge.
Thank you so much for all the investigating and info!
Also, can some tell me if a NOS Empire 2000E III Stylus by Pfanstiehl Waukegan 237-DET will work and how it will compare to a NOS Empire I.
The original poster really did not rank his tests. And the info about all the different ‘colors’ was unclear.
Has anyone done a ‘ranking’ of the best stylus options for an Empire 2000E III?
I would very much appreciate a clear ranking of best sounding stylus options for an Empire 2000E III cartridge.
Thank you so much for all the investigating and info!
Rolls-Royce
Active Member
Those styli are interchangeable. Assuming they were based on the same series internals (some marked 2000s were based on the previous 66-series of cartridges, and the only way to know for certain is to measure their coil resistance and/or inductance), the 2000E/I to III bodies were identical. The differences were in the styli, with variances in diamond radii, tracking force, and frequency response, improving as you moved from I to III.
You might want to consult one of the Empire product listings from back in the day that are floating around online, including in this thread. It will show you how the manufacturer rated them.
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Jeannot61
Active Member
I have in my possession several NOS Empire styluses for E II and E III, as well as a post-85 E III stylus. They all sound the same, and I can't distinguish them with my eyes closed. I also have an NOS Empire 2000 stylus, and although it has a spherical diamond instead of an elliptical one, it sounds just as good. The differentiation of colors made for easy recommendations back in the day, and when one ordered a stylus for E III, it was made clear that it was possible to receive a clear (E III) or a clear blue (E II). Pfanstiehl referenced them in the same way (237-DET for E II and E III), and some websites did the same when reselling.
russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
thevoiceofmusic
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Briefest answer I can think of to your question: The best stylus for a 2000E/III cartridge body, with the proviso that it measures ~1100 ohms and not ~500 ohms, is indeed the S2000E/III.
That said, I wouldn't turn up my nose at an S2000E/I, because though the published specs differ, the audible difference is minimal.
