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anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

Doug G. said:
Actually, now that I think about it (it's been years), I believe my 4000 D/I stylus cantilever had a slight kink in it, also.

Doug
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I have a couple of kinky cantilevers that sound perfect as long as they are lined up correctly. One was so bad that I was going to pitch it, until Walt advise me to try it first, now it's one of my favs. :)
 
I should point out that some care is needed to decide whether a damaged cantilever tube is a go or a no-go.
First, kinks-- that is, a bend so severe that the sides of the tube are touching along a straight line-- are right out. Kinked aluminum has been weakened to the point where the forces of normal play could cause the tube to break.
Second, make sure the diamond is pointing straight down (and it'd be nice if the SRA, stylus rake angle, hasn't been disturbed).
Third, the diamond should ideally end up in 3D space where it would've been on an undamaged tube. It's a judgement call whether to use it if it's close to being correct. If you judge it's not too far off, play a record, ideally with headphones, and see if something sounds wrong.
 
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wualta said:
I should point out some care is needed to decide whether a damaged cantilever tube is a go or a no-go.
First, kinks-- that is, a bend so severe that the sides of the tube are touching along a straight line-- are right out. Kinked aluminum has been weakened to the point where the forces of normal play could cause the tube to break.
Second, make sure the diamond is pointing straight down (and it'd be nice if the SRA, stylus rake angle, hasn't been disturbed).
Third, the diamond should ideally end up in 3D space where it would've been on an undamaged tube. It's a judgement call whether to use it if it's close to being correct. If you judge it's not too far off, play a record, ideally with headphones, and see if something sounds wrong.
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Thank you for the info!
 
wualta said:
I should point out that some care is needed to decide whether a damaged cantilever tube is a go or a no-go.
First, kinks-- that is, a bend so severe that the sides of the tube are touching along a straight line-- are right out. Kinked aluminum has been weakened to the point where the forces of normal play could cause the tube to break.
Second, make sure the diamond is pointing straight down (and it'd be nice if the SRA, stylus rake angle, hasn't been disturbed).
Third, the diamond should ideally end up in 3D space where it would've been on an undamaged tube. It's a judgement call whether to use it if it's close to being correct. If you judge it's not too far off, play a record, ideally with headphones, and see if something sounds wrong.
Click to expand...

On my 4000 D/I stylus, I got it so the diamond relationships were all the same as with an undamaged unit and the kink wasn't bad enough to where any of the interior surfaces of the cantilever were touching.

However, I didn't like that any kink would weaken the structure, likely making it flex in use, which is unwanted, of course. That's why I did the dab of epoxy on each side thing. I figured, since I was going to use it for CD-4, it would become readily apparent if the added mass ruined it.

Luckily, it works perfectly for CD-4 so, obviously, nothing drastic was done with the application of the epoxy "splints".

Doug
 
oprtb said:
My 845 needs new stylus. Seems like someone was experimenting with 2000 series one - curious if y'all know if those are good replacement?

Thanks!
View attachment 3696975View attachment 3696976
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The 845 in your picture (if it is yours) is most assuredly a private label rebranding of the "66" series of Empire cartridges. Which makes the purple stylus in it the proper top of the line elliptical for it. The one in your hand I don't recognize, (is it supposed to be for the 2000 series?) but when looking for a stylus for your 845 be sure to look for a "66" series stylus such as the 4239-PDE shown here.
 
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empirelvr said:
The 845 in your picture (if it is yours) is most assuredly a private label rebranding of the "66" series of Empire cartridges. Which makes the purple stylus in it the proper top of the line elliptical for it. The one in your hand I don't recognize, (is it supposed to be for the 2000 series?) but when looking for a stylus for your 845 be sure to look for a "66" series stylus such as the 4239-PDE shown here.
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Hi and thank you for reply!

Yes, it's my picture and my hand haha!
Also, it's the same stylus in both pictures, might be different lighting so it looks bit different.
 
Don't consider myself an expert, but some ideas. The ones without stylus guards sometimes have another sign if they are genuine Empire. This style can have two bumps on the front along with an "e" in a circle between them. For me, that is good enough, as long as the stylus still has some sign of life remaining. Do you have a magnifier you could take along?
 
@wualta
So going back to your 2000X discussion. As I look more into its replacement stylus and reading the ohms is about 450.
Can I use the similar shank 2000E III stylus .3 x .7 diamond elliptical?
with the preamp settings of 47k Load and 45 db Gain?
Thanks.
 
sound hound said:
Don't consider myself an expert, but some ideas. The ones without stylus guards sometimes have another sign if they are genuine Empire. This style can have two bumps on the front along with an "e" in a circle between them. For me, that is good enough, as long as the stylus still has some sign of life remaining. Do you have a magnifier you could take along?
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I just have a 60x loupe I could bring along.
 
Found what looks to be a branded s8087rd needle recently. The cantilever has a kink but she's very pretty and plays well! I'm quite surprised at how tapered the cantilever is for a conical.

Side note, I have been collecting empires over the last 1.5 years or so. They are still quite available with some hunting. The needle is picture above my empire stack. I didn't have any of these 2 years ago. If anyone would like some detailed pics, I'll do my best without opening packages. 3327.jpg3328.jpg3329.jpg3330.jpg
 
wualta said:
That's what we're here for.
I wish you could have an original-genuine 239-PDE (purple or white) to compare. My experience with the 4239-PDEs I've tried, from a handful of different vendors over several years, is just like yours. They've never risen above "Meh, that's okay. Um, I think I'm gonna listen to this other cartridge over here now..." So I'm perfectly willing to believe the 4239-DEC sounds better. John (boreas) also has a original-genuine 239-DEC (S906E) and says it sounds jolly good, and I trust his ears.

It's hard to beat original-genuine Empire, no matter where a given stylus sits in the socalled pecking order. It's frustrating that every once in a while, a generic comes very close, but that's all too rare, at least in my experience, and I wish I knew why.
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I was gonna ask what do you feel like the difference of the 4237-DEC and 4239-PDE. It says on the package its polished elliptical. I was looking closely on the loupe and its real diamond. Cosmetically not as good as the Duotone like what you mentioned before. But most of these stylus sounds really good after the help of a good preamp settings.
Load is 100k - so I'll set my preamp of 47k x 2
Output 3 mV/channel - 43 db settings on a 3mv cart output is about 424 mv on preamp which is about right on the 400 to 500 preamp output target.
I'm planning to pop the 4239 in the 4000D/III cartridge running on stereo mode this Sunday.
I want to hear what it really sounds on a Dual 701 Turntable and a 3D tube amp.
Joe-Fluxion-LV-14-10-05-2025-Western-Electric.jpg
 
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rudolfo said:
@wualta
So going back to your 2000X discussion. As I look more into its replacement stylus and reading the ohms is about 450.
Can I use the similar shank 2000E III stylus .3 x .7 diamond elliptical?
with the preamp settings of 47k Load and 45 db Gain?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
All Empire 2000 diamonds from 2000 E/III can be mounted on all 2000 to 2000 E/III cells. Depending on the size of the diamond and compliance, there will be differences in listening experience, but they are all compatible ;)
 
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