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anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

Haven’t posted in this thread for awhile. So here’s my question. Purchased a mint serviced Technics SL 1500, older model not current one. It came with an Empire 2000e/iii. Looks to have an original empire stylus-color is solid red. What is the correct tracking force for this stylus? Any help greatly appreciated.
 
tbowli said:
Haven’t posted in this thread for awhile. So here’s my question. Purchased a mint serviced Technics SL 1500, older model not current one. It came with an Empire 2000e/iii. Looks to have an original empire stylus-color is solid red. What is the correct tracking force for this stylus? Any help greatly appreciated.
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Solid red or translucent red? At any rate the translucent red OEM empire stylus is most likely for the 2000E, fourth down from the top, after the III (the ‘best’), II, and I. The bodies are all the same, just the styluses were finer the higher up you go.

This chart might help. I would assume it is the 2000E stylus, and use the upper scale for tracking force (maybe try 2 grams to start?).

It’s a great cartridge, even with new aftermarket elliptical styluses that aren’t very expensive (though way better with some sort of fine line contact tip).

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tbowli said:
Haven’t posted in this thread for awhile. So here’s my question. Purchased a mint serviced Technics SL 1500, older model not current one. It came with an Empire 2000e/iii. Looks to have an original empire stylus-color is solid red. What is the correct tracking force for this stylus? Any help greatly appreciated.
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I have an original clear red and if that’s what you have, it’s probably best to start with 1.5 g. It’s really going to depend on how well the suspension has been holding up for all of these years and if it’s still working well. If not then you will have to decide what to do.

Range is 1-3 as given by dr fuse. 2000e. E is for elliptical. Mine sounds okay and no complaints. I think I tracked it just at 1.5 to 1.75 on a 1700, and a hitachi dd. You are going to have to do the trial and error w your setup to find out what works best. Lets us know what you find out!
 
wualta said:
If you do try some "wrong" combination(s), let us know if you hear the difference, and if so, whether that difference is important to you, either as a tweak or a defect.
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I'll follow up with you guys in a few days. I ordered a load of metal film resistor for my preamp so I can dial the load closely and correctly.
So far on the Empire 1000 SE/X is dead nuts on 47k and 45 db gain with a .3 x .7 elliptical nude NOS japanese aftermarket. This cartridge is one of the best in the friendliest setting category that I've used so far. Just look at the specs especially the voltage output. If you do the math the target should be around 43 to 47 db gain in the area between 400 to 500 output.
As I compared it to the 4000D III, its very close besides the 4000D obviously has a bigger engine heavier around 100 gram or more. The 4000d III haven't spoken to its full potential for I need those parts so I can dial it close to 100k to 500k input. But I can hear it has a bit more 3D. Pretty obvious it was designed for quadraphonics can hopefully be perfect for the 300b amp. Will keep you posted.

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I currently have a 4000 XL 1 mounted on a Sansui QR X7, still have the Empire I black stylus that came with it but using a Nagaoka GD 89-401E stylus at the moment, mentions on the box it is for the 4000 D / 1.

I noticed a 999 SE / X stylus for sale locally new in the box for 100 Cdn. and wonder if it is worth picking up? I have read the suspension can be an age related issue.


I keep getting this idea that some newer cartridges might be worth having - in particular the AT VM 740xML - have a 95ML on a Sansui SR 525 as well as a Pioneer PL 518 that I alternate between a Shure M 91 ED ( LP Gear VL and Bliss HE ) and ADC XLM II with Improved III original stylus.

Also have a JVC QL Y5F with a Shure M 97 HE Era IV ( original stylus ) along with a Hitachi HT 500 that gets played occaisionally.

Sometimes I will install a Pickering XSV 3000 with original stylus or SAE 1000E so have a few to play with. Obviously I like vintage cartridges but on a limited budget.

The gist of it being whether the reasonably priced AT cartridge mentioned should be considered? Stylus are of course readily available - there are many options out there and the price of some of the original stylus are getting rather high if one finds them. The micro line stylus is a nice one and long lasting which makes it a definite contender.

Hope I am not diverging from the thread topic too much!




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999 SE/X
I don't have any experience with this one besides the newer 1000 series.
It should be a good cartridge with the right stylus and preamp settings. Here's a video and hope will deliver some ideas in where it stands.

Stand alone test

888 and 999 SE/X comparison

4000D III
With a stroke of the luck the parts for my preamp is coming tomorrow so I'd be able to set my preamp to match the 4000D. Right now it sounds a bit in the dark side, with a lot of 3D and very decent. I will report tomorrow as soon as I calibrate and dial the preamp, cartridge and finally see if this will shine victory with what types of stylus, settings and all that. Will get back tomorrow!
 
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RemoWilliams said:
I noticed a 999 SE / X stylus for sale locally new in the box for 100 Cdn. and wonder if it is worth picking up? I have read the suspension can be an age related issue.
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I am listening to Sinatra on a 999 VEX as I post, it's similar and a very detailed, light tracking combo. Not quite as much output as your 4000 XL, but plenty of detail and a beautiful little vintage cantilever!

When I first found this thread to ask about an empire cart I found on a table, I was given the advice to buy them when you can find them new. I followed that advice, perhaps a bit too often. But it has turned into a beautiful affair. All that said, I think 99 CAD is a bit overpriced for a bare needle. It's worth the price, but a month ago VoM was selling them for $45 US. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and stock is fickle for these items. So I am sure if you go down the path and purchase it, the decision will not be a regret. Just watch out, it's can be a slippery slope for those who love the empire sound!
 
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Sad that tVOM's out of all the 235-SDE styli, but if you want one of the better bang/buck deals, try a yellow 235-D7. Your choice of brown or yellow. My yellow turned out to be diasa, while the brown I got later was regular ol' bonded, so go for the yellow and maybe you'll get something good sounding and fun to look at.

Has anyone tried the 235-DE, the green base elliptical?
 
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I finally got around the mighty 4000D/III using a 4239-PDE, set on 1.25 Grams, 40 db Gain, and I tried several loads from 47k all the way up to 400k in the increments of 50k. The sweetest spot setting I got is 200k. This cartridge is more designed panoramic view in listening. You can really hear more 3D sound. Amazing cartridge and the way it track is superior. It will probably sound more better with a .2 tip which it was really designed for in a very low tracking force. This is definitely an amazing sounding cartridge!
Pretty much most of the old Empires with the right stylus, optimal settings is a game changer. The beauty of these, that sparkling sound can last for a very long time!



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rudolfo said:
I finally got around the mighty 4000D/III using a 4239-PDE, set on 1.25 Grams, 40 db Gain, and I tried several loads from 47k all the way up to 400k in the increments of 50k. The sweetest spot setting I got is 200k. This cartridge is more designed panoramic view in listening. You can really hear more 3D sound. Amazing cartridge and the way it track is superior. It will probably sound more better with a .2 tip which it was really designed for in a very low tracking force. This is definitely an amazing sounding cartridge!
Pretty much most of the old Empires with the right stylus, optimal settings is a game changer. The beauty of these, that sparkling sound can last for a very long time!



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Do you know if any 4239-PDE styluses are available anywhere?
 
Found what appears to be an Astatic branded empire cart! It is something unique to me, searched the thread and couldn't find anything but it's a big thread so who knows. Thought I would share. Differences: 1) the flip down guard appears to be an older style similar to the 1000 ZEX, 2) printing on both sides of the cart accompanied by astatic logo painted on, 3) printing of the cart model is slightly larger, and 4) the paper box appears identical, but the bottom of the plastic case is clear (right) vs. others I have that are white on the bottom (left). Is this legit?4411.jpg4412.jpg4414.jpg4415.jpg
 
wualta said:
Astatic-stamped genuine-Empire styli are kinda-sorta rare around here, but we have had a few. When companies like ADC and Empire went out of business, Astatic swooped in and bought up big hunks of inventory.
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What is the purpose why they design the rounded shank in the early 70's?
Thanks
BTW: I had a feedback from my friend that got the 2000X and I gave him a 237-D7C. He said it's amazing. He's using iFi Phono 2 and Technics SL-1200. I don't even know what it is. The Technics I know its good but I never own one before.
 
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rudolfo said:
What is the purpose why they design the rounded shank in the early 70's?
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I think the most likely reason is ease of manufacture. The question is, why they changed to a square. "Sheer cussedness!", some would say. But there may have been other considerations, and I'm sure many of us wish we knew what they were.
 
wualta said:
I think the most likely reason is ease of manufacture. The question is, why they changed to a square. "Sheer cussedness!", some would say. But there may have been other considerations, and I'm sure many of us wish we knew what they were.
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A few months ago I was able to pick a 1000 ZE/X. It was perfect timing for I have several new different aftermarket stylus. The one I got was near free loose. It felt not right that It might go off center when in action. So I end up returning it. The seller didn't know too. I was curious if I should continue looking for that cartridge in the future though I heard it's a good sounding cartridge.
 
I know we have a language barrier. I'm having difficulty understanding your description ("near free loose") of what went wrong with your 1000 ZE/X. It sounds as if the body of the cartridge was coming apart. It is a good cartridge and worth pursuing. The same body was used for the 999 VE/X.
 
rudolfo said:
A few months ago I was able to pick a 1000 ZE/X. It was perfect timing for I have several new different aftermarket stylus. The one I got was near free loose. It felt not right that It might go off center when in action. So I end up returning it. The seller didn't know too. I was curious if I should continue looking for that cartridge in the future though I heard it's a good sounding cartridge.
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Its possible to pinch the tube gently with pliers to achieve a wider circumference and more friction to keep the shank inserted. Some companies, in fact, do this as part of their production.

On a 1000 ZEX I would be more concerned with a replacement having a magnet instead of an iron alloy in the back of the cantilever. If I am not mistaken, this cart was the first MI model in empires lineup. It's one of the things that made the 1000 ZEX so special
 
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