AR4x vs KLH 17

[jgscott]

Thanks to Zilch we have a ballpark on what you can expect from a KLH 17:

as compared to a AR4x:

The KLH 17 appears to have boosted mids and the highs drop off pretty aggressively at around 11kHz.

The AR4x have a few massive holes in the frequency response just below 300Hz and again at 400 and 600Hz. It does however have a lot more high frequency extension than the KLH 17--continuing up to around 16 or 17kHz is my guess.

Having had both, I'd go with the AR4x and a cheapo powered subwoofer that can play up 125Hz and call it a day.

I wonder if those AR's were "Recapped":scratch2:.

And high frequency extension does not always mean ringing or fatigue. On well know speakers like the AR4x that normally means they play more music. I've just about never heard a vintage AR series being a ringing fatiguing speaker. Quite the opposite with the right amp.

 

[GD70]

Picking up the 17's tomorrow, and the AR's! Yeah!!
I'll post pics tomorrow evening.
I'm very curious how they will compare to my 6's.
Here's a pic the seller sent me.

Glenn

 

[boreas]

I think you're going to be a very happy camper, Glenn! Wish someone around here was offering something like that!

John

 

[Robie]

Good decision to go with both. Please let us know what you think.

I refer to the 17s, 4xs and Dynaco A25s as the trinity of classic small bookshelf speakers but that inasmuch refers to a particular period of time when they were sold and my preference for "east coast" sound (as opposed to the more "forward presentation" of say my Genesis Model 10s or EPI A70s).

I have both the 17s and 4xs (as well as A25s). All have been recapped and the 4xs and 17s were redoped.

To my ears the 17s sound overall much bigger and play louder. They have great midrange. The 4xs are very nice in an intimate setting but are not the last word in immediacy as they exhibit a kind of overly laid back presentation that the 17s don't have. 4xs are always very polite sounding (not overly forward), but sometimes too much so, at least to me.

I might compare the 4xs a bit to the always pleasant sounding Dynaco A25s and the 17s to the Original Large Advents. I lived with both Dynacos and Advents as my main speakers for years way back when. However, with that pair (A25s and Advents) I definitely now prefer the Dynacos.

 

[GD70]

Good decision to go with both. Please let us know what you think.

I refer to the 17s, 4xs and Dynaco A25s as the trinity of classic small bookshelf speakers but that inasmuch refers to a particular period of time when they were sold and my preference for "east coast" sound (as opposed to the more "forward presentation" of say my Genesis Model 10s or EPI A70s).

I have both the 17s and 4xs (as well as A25s). All have been recapped and the 4xs and 17s were redoped.

To my ears the 17s sound overall much bigger and play louder. They have great midrange. The 4xs are very nice in an intimate setting but are not the last word in immediacy as they exhibit a kind of overly laid back presentation that the 17s don't have. 4xs are always very polite sounding (not overly forward), but sometimes too much so, at least to me.

I might compare the 4xs a bit to the always pleasant sounding Dynaco A25s and the 17s to the Original Large Advents. I lived with both Dynacos and Advents as my main speakers for years way back when. However, with that pair (A25s and Advents) I definitely now prefer the Dynacos.

Thanks for your insight.
They both appear to be in very nice condition. I figured for 140 bucks I couldn't go wrong.
First thing will be to reseal the woofer surrounds and give them a listen. Then I'll do a recap.

I'll let you all know my first impressions this evening.

Cheers, Glenn

 

[Robie]

Thanks for your insight.
They both appear to be in very nice condition. I figured for 140 bucks I couldn't go wrong.
First thing will be to reseal the woofer surrounds and give them a listen. Then I'll do a recap.

I'll let you all know my first impressions this evening.

Cheers, Glenn

I just realized you are already doing this but make sure the woofers are sealed on both. If not, they'll need to be redoped before used as not having a sealed woofer surround can damage the woofer if played too loudly. Without a seal, the woofer travel can exceed travel limits. It takes a day or so for the redope material to dry but it depends on what you use.

I contacted AK member "RoyC" (AR expert) for his recommendations on what to use.

 

[GD70]

Got them!

The AR's cabinets and grills are nearly perfect. The KLH's are nice, some minor white scuffs on the side of on. Some 0000 steel wool should clean them up and some finishing oil.

Two questions re; removal of the grills.
The KLH logo needs to be unscrewed I assume before the grill can be pulled off?
The AR grills are very tight to the cabinet. Are they also held on with velcro?
Because of the scuffing the KLH's I got both pairs for 130.00. I think I did ok.

Thanks.

 

[GD70]

AR 4x grill removal?????

AR's-These are in GREAT physical shape. I don't want to do any damage trying to pull the grills off. I tried a paint can opener, but they are in there like a rock. Do they have velcro like the KLH's or are they glued? Hope not.
Preliminary listening impression is they are very nice for their size. Bass is good but I can easily push them to distort. I think a woofer surround re-seal will help. Both tweeters work and one of the pots is dirty and took a bit of fiddling to get the sweet spot where one tweeter would come alive. They don't play as loud at the same setting as the 17's, and the 17's don't play as loud as the 6's.

KLH's grills came right off after I unscrewed the badges.
I gently pushed the woofers in and they popped right back out so I will seal them tonight.
My preliminary listen impression is very good! Tweeters work perfectly!
Don't go as deep as the 6's but I expected that, but after the surround seal I think they will improve.
The tweeter screens are perfect, no dents. I doubt the grills have ever been off these. I really lucked out. The grill fabric is lighter where the badge was.

So I'm pretty happy with this purchase.
Here's some pics. More to come.

 

[GD70]

The bottoms of the AR's were a bit scratched up and after some minor sanding and some Old English, they look a lot better.
Before

After

 

[GD70]

Got the grills off- uggg they are glued to the cabs.

The drivers look great, but the woofers need the surrounds sealed. I'll need to order more, I used up what I had on the KLH's.
Based on the drivers, and serial numbers are these earlier or later?

 

[Robie]

You did very well!!!! Once they are redoped and recapped, I look forward to hearing your impressions.

 

[Robie]

Tomorrow, I'll check my serial numbers on my 4xs and post them here.

 

[jgscott]

Nice. BTW what are you going to drive them with ??

 

[budgetaudio6]

Size doesn't matter to much for me. That is the speakers.

dont care who you are but you had me worried...

 

[GD70]

Nice. BTW what are you going to drive them with ??

For now a JVC A-X5 amp, 73wpc. Could also be a JVC R-S-77 Receiver, 60 wpc.
Depends on which room they end up.

I'm using the receiver in my basement connected to my MAC for streaming.
The Amp is my main system which will go in the living room after some renovations are finished and I can get the system back in there.

 

[Robie]

Mine are just slightly earlier. SNs: FX321619 and 321396. Here's a link to my thread on my 4xs as there may be some info there that's useful. Http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251360

I also have a file on 4xs with miscellaneous info I've picked up on them since I got them. Please let me know if you're looking for something. My favorite is a piece of advertising with an incredibly pretty Judy Collins sitting in an office with AR4xs.

 

[GD70]

Mine are just slightly earlier. SNs: FX321619 and 321396. Here's a link to my thread on my 4xs as there may be some info there that's useful. Http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251360

I also have a file on 4xs with miscellaneous info I've picked up on them since I got them. Please let me know if you're looking for something. My favorite is a piece of advertising with an incredibly pretty Judy Collins sitting in an office with AR4xs.

View attachment 417189

Looks like our tweets are the same, but different woofers.
I was surprised at how close the numbers were on these. Almost a sequencial set.

I read your thread. They look great! Your finish hue is a bit redder than mine. Did you re-cap yours and if so what caps did you use. I haven't pulled the woofers yet.

The KLH 17's I know use the same caps as my 6's but for now sound very nice so no rush to recap either for now.
I will get some Deoxit for the scratchy pots.

Glenn

 

[Robie]

I recapped both with Dayton 5%s but can't remember the value.

Mine may be a bit redder as I used Howard Restor-A-Finish and may only have had Cherry or Mahogany tinted on hand. I did soak the grille cloths in a bath of Woolite and warm water and they turned out fine.

One obvious thing about recapping the 4xs that may not seem obvious to a neophyte (me):

Just snip the wires to the old "block shaped" cap in the 4xs and leave it in place. I was trying like crazy to figure out how to get the old rectangular block cap out when someone suggested the obvious ("Just snip the wires, leave it there and solder the new cap to the snipped leads that formerly fed the block cap.") I honestly would never have thought of that (too close to the "trees" to see the "forest").

 

[GD70]

I recapped both with Dayton 5%s but can't remember the value.

Mine may be a bit redder as I used Howard Restor-A-Finish and may only have had Cherry or Mahogany tinted on hand. I did soak the grille cloths in a bath of Woolite and warm water and they turned out fine.

One obvious thing about recapping the 4xs that may not seem obvious to a neophyte (me):

Just snip the wires to the old "block shaped" cap in the 4xs and leave it in place. I was trying like crazy to figure out how to get the old rectangular block cap out when someone suggested the obvious ("Just snip the wires, leave it there and solder the new cap to the snipped leads that formerly fed the block cap.") I honestly would never have thought of that (too close to the "trees" to see the "forest").

That's what I did on my 6's. Made it very easy to replace.

 

[GD70]

Worked om the 17's cleaning up the cabs.-PICS

The woofers will need another coat of dope as they still pop back pretty quickly when pushed in. I'm not playing the AR's until I get more dope to do them as well. Also, based on the numbers and plate on the back, can someone tell if these are early or late models? They don't have the typical KLH logo.
The cabs overall are in very nice shape. The bottoms were the worst surface as expected. I did some light sanding and used 0000 steel wool. Then used some Old English. I'm very happy with the results. Here's some before & after pics.

After