Are Harmon Kardon Amps High Grade?
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mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
They had several lines at differering price points. The above-mentioned Citation II is in the 2die4 category.
see, e.g., pp 14 to 17 at http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1960/
pp 28 to 29 and pg 37 (hubba-hubba!) of http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1961/
see, e.g., pp 14 to 17 at http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1960/
pp 28 to 29 and pg 37 (hubba-hubba!) of http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1961/
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mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
generally.... but you get what you pay for.
electroking
a- v- karma member
I don't know about Harmon Kardon, but Harman Kardon is reputed for quality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harman_Kardon
Spelling it correctly may help you do a search on the web!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harman_Kardon
Spelling it correctly may help you do a search on the web!
jaymanaa
RIP 1961-2018
Around 2 k for something that's been restored electrically.
Horn Head
Super Member
Wow! Great links to those catalogs. Going through each page by page...
Bluelobster
Well-Known Member
A restored Citation II Wired pentode will output about 60 watts. Wired triode output about 40. It is also capable of 100 watt peaks.
I don't want to make enemies, but I am not a fan of the Citation II. In my opinion, the bottom end is robust, but there isn't much "life" on the mids and highs. I've heard more than one of these. I've restored one from stem-to-stern. I just don't think the KT88 (or KT90s) and the hugh transformers perform admirably with the frequency range that I enjoy most.
Sure - the amps show flat response well beyond 20K. I wish I felt differently, in part due to the considerable amount of time and effort I put into one.
I have a friend who has restored at least three of them. He then took a plain-vanilla Dyna ST-70 and installed the Welbourne Labs mod. He agreed that the Dyna mod stomped all over his CIIs.
:-(
Sure - the amps show flat response well beyond 20K. I wish I felt differently, in part due to the considerable amount of time and effort I put into one.
I have a friend who has restored at least three of them. He then took a plain-vanilla Dyna ST-70 and installed the Welbourne Labs mod. He agreed that the Dyna mod stomped all over his CIIs.
:-(
KGBMAN
Well-Known Member
I gotta agree here. What a trip down memory lane...
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Well... the issue with the sound of the EL34/KTxx family is generic and has nothing to do with the Citation II. The best sounding amps using those tubes (e.g., Citation II and Marantz 8B) are fine sounding amplifiers, full stop. The output iron in the Citation II and the 8B are faultless.
There are better sounding output tubes, if palpable midrange is what floats one's boat.
There are better sounding output tubes, if palpable midrange is what floats one's boat.
audiodon
Addicted Member
I understand that one of the ways frequency response is extended is through the heavy use of negative feedback. Jim McShane says that the caps in the feedback loop need to be replaced and that helps a lot. I wish he'd find this thread and comment here as he is the tube Citationmeister and has loads of experience with Cit and others for comparison purposes. Seeing that his site is so Citation heavy, I believe he would have positive things to say but he is fair in his comments.
As far as the Cit II vs. Cit V, I can't comment directly, never having compared the Cit II. But the rumor I've read in more than one place is that the Cit V sounds sweeter. It uses 7581 tubes stock (6L6GC). That may make a difference.
Elegance of design and layout aside, I've yet to restore my V so I can't talk to its sonic merits. I take what BuzzK says very seriously though.
As far as the Cit II vs. Cit V, I can't comment directly, never having compared the Cit II. But the rumor I've read in more than one place is that the Cit V sounds sweeter. It uses 7581 tubes stock (6L6GC). That may make a difference.
Elegance of design and layout aside, I've yet to restore my V so I can't talk to its sonic merits. I take what BuzzK says very seriously though.
Well, I disagree with BuzzK, so I'll provide some counterpoint.
I think it comes down to taste -- out of all the tube amps I own, the Citation II has the lowest measurable distortion and the lowest audible distortion. On the bench, the performance is impeccable. Other amps might have more "life", and while that might appeal to some, that "life" sounds an awful lot like distortion to me, and quickly becomes grating. My Citation I, II, and III have been stored now for 2.5 years while I've been living in Utah, and I can tell you that nothing has sounded quite right since giving them up. I can hardly wait to get them back in my system.
Now, I will say that the Citation gear requires complete restoration to appreciate. In addition to the power supply and coupling caps, all of the feedback capacitors and resistors need to be replaced with modern parts. Until that is done, I think it sounds a bit like 1970s solid state gear, which isn't bad, but also isn't optimal.
I think it comes down to taste -- out of all the tube amps I own, the Citation II has the lowest measurable distortion and the lowest audible distortion. On the bench, the performance is impeccable. Other amps might have more "life", and while that might appeal to some, that "life" sounds an awful lot like distortion to me, and quickly becomes grating. My Citation I, II, and III have been stored now for 2.5 years while I've been living in Utah, and I can tell you that nothing has sounded quite right since giving them up. I can hardly wait to get them back in my system.
Now, I will say that the Citation gear requires complete restoration to appreciate. In addition to the power supply and coupling caps, all of the feedback capacitors and resistors need to be replaced with modern parts. Until that is done, I think it sounds a bit like 1970s solid state gear, which isn't bad, but also isn't optimal.
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