Astin Trew At 3500+ CDP: any opinions?

[Art K.]

Many thanks! I can´t do anything else but sitting there listening for hours to some of my favorite CDs. It is an awesome moment.

...and that's how it should be, fantastic!

 

[Mr. Lin]

Maybe I messed things up, but I remeber commenting your wonderful LP set of Fricsay conducting Die Zuberflote, which has a cast to die for.

Nope, it seems I was not utilizing all my brain cells when I wrote that, it's my mistake. You are in fact correct, mine was the recording you describe above.

I'll send you a pm about the tube source. Mine is expensive, but worth it IMO. There are so many options though when it comes to whom you buy tubes from.

I'm actually really interested in the defeatable upsampling feature on your AT. Every review I've ever read of CD players with that, or similar options, concluded that differences were very, very small, but real. So it might be a struggle to figure out what changes, if anything. I'm thinking the upsampling option might soften and smooth out the sound a little, not that it would necessarily be any better than the non-upsampling setting.

Im starting to realize that I should consider selling my big 70s system and focus my efforts more towards Smaller high end components that I can manage more easily and probably enjoy more often. Im hoping to concentrate my system around a very good CDP and TT and threads like this one are very helpful and positive.

These days it's not too hard to set up a great-sounding system with new, relatively affordable components. Relatively affordable as in, if you can afford them. But decent CD players start at, I suppose, around $300 new, and many lauded CD players are in the ~$500-600 range. I bought my Naim and MF used, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to afford them, and those were two of the best decisions I've made in purchasing audio equipment. If it's possibly helpful, I have a thread buried in this exact forum comparing my three CD players - all of which are new - if you search the brand names in my signature, the thread should come up.

 

[davidro]

Ok I didn't realise people post here....

First impressions: the best of all is the depth and widest range of the soundstage.

More impresions: the last movement of Mahler´s 6th symphony as recorded by Leonard Bernstein conducting the Vienna Philhramonic Orchestra. The sound of the orchestra is as close as possible to a real concert balance, again with a very wide soundstage.

Mmmmmmm.........wide soundstage.

Human voices: I tried Mozart´s Don Giovanni in the recording conducted by Herbert Von Karajan for DG. I´ve found that recording a bit fuzzy (typical "digital" sound) in other CDPs so I thought that it was a good test. Nothing of this sort with the AT! Actually I am amazed at the colors and nuances of the voices. The highs seem to be very open, not constrained or grainy. The sopranos and tenors sound sweet, as they do in a good LP system.

So Karajan's frequently criticised digital sound required a modern high-end CD player for a true test eh? Damn it

Mr. davidro will appreciate that most of all.

Thanks Dave I'll pay for the shipping at least I'll PM you my address :yes:

 

[Augy]

Enjoy

Many thanks! I can´t do anything else but sitting there listening for hours to some of my favorite CDs. It is an awesome moment.

Glad to see you picked up a player that sounds great...seems like you got your monies worth....Enjoy the music my friend!!!!

 

[Mr. Lin]

Thanks Dave I'll pay for the shipping at least I'll PM you my address :yes:

Sorry, ships within the U.S. only.

Notice how guiller is no longer present? That's got to be a good thing, he's probably going through his CD collection in alphabetical order at this point lol.

 

[guiller]

Notice how guiller is no longer present? That's got to be a good thing, he's probably going through his CD collection in alphabetical order at this point lol.

I got stuck with Richard Strauss´ "Death and Transfiguration"....

 

[guiller]

Glad to see you picked up a player that sounds great...seems like you got your monies worth....Enjoy the music my friend!!!!

Thanks, this is what I am doing! And you are right: I risked a bit when I decided to buy this CDP, but I can now endorse it a superb one. This is one of the best additions I´ve done to my system in recent times.

 

[guiller]

Congratulations on your new CDP Ive been following some threads lately about CDPs and searching for ways to improve my system. Im starting to realize that I should consider selling my big 70s system and focus my efforts more towards Smaller high end components that I can manage more easily and probably enjoy more often. Im hoping to concentrate my system around a very good CDP and TT and threads like this one are very helpful and positive.

I hope you enjoy hearing your CD collection in a whole new light, there is nothing like it and for me thats what its all about.:thmbsp::thmbsp:

Thanks! In the last two years I´ve followed the philosophy you outline here and sold some gear that I really didn´t need (I had three systems and now got two: the main and the bedroom systems). Then I focused in getting better gear for my main system (eventually, my main system made it to the bedroom system!).

 

[Mr. Lin]

Thanks! In the last two years I´ve followed the philosophy you outline here and sold some gear that I really didn´t need (I had three systems and now got two: the main and the bedroom systems). Then I focused in getting better gear for my main system (eventually, my main system made it to the bedroom system!).

So I suppose the CA 650A is now in the bedroom?

Done any back and forth listening with the upsampling thing yet?

 

[guiller]

So I suppose the CA 650A is now in the bedroom?

Done any back and forth listening with the upsampling thing yet?

Yes, the CA 650 C is there (the A is the amplifier model, which I don't have), making company to my Nikko's (Alpha 2 power amp, Beta 2 preamp, Gamma 1 tuner), my Denon DCD-1650 G (Japanese internal market) CDP, my Thorens TD-126 MK 2 and my AR-3's. It sounds pretty good there, but it is of course in a different universality class than the AT!

Regarding the upsampling: yes, I am experiencing a bit. It is definitely a subtle effect. I've found better to adapt myself to the changes starting a piece with a different setting and not changing it on-the-fly. The changes are rather subtle: image focusing and soundstage width seem to be the best ways of describing these effects. None of both choices seem to be the best in all cases. I've found that I like it better to play orchestral music with the upsampling off, because the soundstage seems to be the widest possible, whereas for some (many, but not all) chamber music recordings (piano trios and string quartets in particular) the upsampling mode sounds closer to an imaginary real concert. In this case, the results are delightful, very realistic sounding. Somehow the soundstage seems narrower (a bit, not dramatically) but the string instruments smoother (again, not that there is any harshness at all with the other setting). For lieder I could not find a best setting since it seems to depend a lot on the recording. Mono recordings present even more subtle differences, but I would need to explore this more before arriving to a conclusion.

My conclusion up to now is that I find it very useful to have the possibility of switching the upsampling on or off. A very clever feature I would say, and that is my overall thinking about this marvelous CDP.


PS: the upsampling option can be activated from the remote control, a nice feature!

 

[Mr. Lin]

Yes, the CA 650 C is there (the A is the amplifier model, which I don't have)

Oh, Ah Cee.

PS: the upsampling option can be activated from the remote control, a nice feature!

That's pretty cool, very convenient. Although I totally understand the nearly universal need among audiophiles for a well-made, easy-to-use remote, it's not a huge issue for me. Probably because I'm pretty young, and don't mind having to get up a lot, or crouch down, do a split, or get into some other kind of rather extreme position to change and/or adjust something.

Now, you have the upsampling option. The only other thing I would love to have on a CD player in an option for inverse polarity. That's supposed to be a great thing to have for CD playback. I've spent a lot of time with a friend's BAT preamp/amp, and only recently realized there's a polarity reverse button. Last time I was there, I didn't have enough time to try and discern differences between CDs.

I wonder, will we ever again see lps in your classical play list posts? :thmbsp:

 

[guiller]

I wonder, will we ever again see lps in your classical play list posts? :thmbsp:

Don't worry: LPs, R2R and cassettes will also find their place in that thread! For the moment I fell under the spell of this fantastic piece of engineering.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Don't worry: LPs, R2R and cassettes will also find their place in that thread! For the moment I fell under the spell of this fantastic piece of engineering.

I totally understand. I've just been given a box of really wonderful classical lps by my cousin, who owns a record store. Apparently he's been paying attention to what I like. So I'll be setting up the turntable again soon, I think you'll find some of the records pretty interesting.

 

[guiller]

So I'll be setting up the turntable again soon, I think you'll find some of the records pretty interesting.

Great! Why having to live with just one audio format?


È tutto amore! Chi a una sola è fedele, verso l'altre è crudele

(It's all love! Whoever is faithful to just one woman, is cruel with the rest of them all)


from Mozart's "Don Giovanni"

 

[guiller]

I did extensive upsampling/non-upsampling tests yesterday. It's a fascinating experience. It's more like changing seats in a concert hall. Perspectives are different, sometimes one prefers one seat but for a different concert, the other sounds better. One is closer, the other one farther from the stage.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Great! Why having to live with just one audio format?


È tutto amore! Chi a una sola è fedele, verso l'altre è crudele

(It's all love! Whoever is faithful to just one woman, is cruel with the rest of them all)


from Mozart's "Don Giovanni"

Agreed. I enjoy many formats for their various strengths and despite their weaknesses.

I did extensive upsampling/non-upsampling tests yesterday. It's a fascinating experience. It's more like changing seats in a concert hall. Perspectives are different, sometimes one prefers one seat but for a different concert, the other sounds better. One is closer, the other one farther from the stage.

Excellent! So you noticed a somewhat smoother sound with upsampling on, except with voices - is that correct?

 

[guiller]

So you noticed a somewhat smoother sound with upsampling on, except with voices - is that correct?

Upsampling on gives me a closer prespective, more suitable for chamber music, but somehow narrower and smoother. Upsampling off is like listening from a farther position, the soundstage is larger and the sound a bit less smooth (without being harsh). Regarding human voices, there is no definite statement. For opera, whereas voices are strong and the perspective distant, no upsampling seems to be what I tend to favor. In lieder instead, I am leaning towards upsampling on. So my experiences seem to boil down to the idea of a variable distance (implying also resonances, ambience) between the musicians and the listener. It's funny, but I've never read a review that describes a similar experience.

 

[guiller]

As the CDP breaks in, I find the upsampling option more and more fascinating. I´ve just heard Schumann 1st symphony with Charles Munch conducting the Boston Symphony Orchestra and was delighted to hear many details of balance and color that I´ve never heard before (I have this recording on LP too). I found myself staying with the upsampling switch on throughout this immensely enjoyable performance.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Upsampling on gives me a closer prespective, more suitable for chamber music, but somehow narrower and smoother. Upsampling off is like listening from a farther position, the soundstage is larger and the sound a bit less smooth (without being harsh). Regarding human voices, there is no definite statement. For opera, whereas voices are strong and the perspective distant, no upsampling seems to be what I tend to favor. In lieder instead, I am leaning towards upsampling on. So my experiences seem to boil down to the idea of a variable distance (implying also resonances, ambience) between the musicians and the listener. It's funny, but I've never read a review that describes a similar experience.

As the CDP breaks in, I find the upsampling option more and more fascinating. I´ve just heard Schumann 1st symphony with Charles Munch conducting the Boston Symphony Orchestra and was delighted to hear many details of balance and color that I´ve never heard before (I have this recording on LP too). I found myself staying with the upsampling switch on throughout this immensely enjoyable performance.

As you probably know, non-up or oversampling DACs are all the rage right now, and many express doubt about whether upsampling was just a widely used, hyped up, marketing gimmick. But I think that's a cynical and uninformed way to look at it. There seem to be benefits to both ways, and like everything in life, it's not black and white.

With my MF A3.5 CDP, which makes a big deal over the upsampling technology within it (the CD player is now about 6 years old for reference), I hear a sound very similar to what you're describing. The two words that immediately come to mind for that CD player are smooth, and detail.

Additionally, the A3.5 has a slightly dark, closed-in sound. It is phenomenal with voices, especially female voices.

So I think your experience is not so unusual, and since I got the aforementioned CD player, I've read some reviews of upsampling CD players in which the sonic presentation is described as being similar to what we're hearing.

This is one of the big things, IMO, that makes hi-fi audio so thrilling - experimentation, and variability. Endless possibilities, all centered around music.

 

[guiller]

As you probably know, non-up or oversampling DACs are all the rage right now, and many express doubt about whether upsampling was just a widely used, hyped up, marketing gimmick. But I think that's a cynical and uninformed way to look at it. There seem to be benefits to both ways, and like everything in life, it's not black and white.

With my MF A3.5 CDP, which makes a big deal over the upsampling technology within it (the CD player is now about 6 years old for reference), I hear a sound very similar to what you're describing. The two words that immediately come to mind for that CD player are smooth, and detail.

Additionally, the A3.5 has a slightly dark, closed-in sound. It is phenomenal with voices, especially female voices.

So I think your experience is not so unusual, and since I got the aforementioned CD player, I've read some reviews of upsampling CD players in which the sonic presentation is described as being similar to what we're hearing.

This is one of the big things, IMO, that makes hi-fi audio so thrilling - experimentation, and variability. Endless possibilities, all centered around music.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your input: this makes me feel more relaxed in the sense that the subtle effects of upsampling are not impossible of being characterized after all. Yesterday I was amazed by the dark tone of the (mid) brass instruments in the Boston Symphony recording of the Schumann 1st symphony (of the mid 50's) that is so realistically familiar for people (like myself) who played a brass instrument (I played the french horn in my teenager days). That tone is very difficult to come through a recording, and never heard it before in a digital rig. I'm very happy to verify that the Astin Trew is capable of delivering it.