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AT PL-120 in the house (arcorob gets a woodie thread)

iLUVanalog said:
hey frank....sorry if this is a redundant question, but what size o-rings did you use? i'm thinking of doing that for my SL1200 and PL120. thanks! steve
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I'm sorry I missed your question :dunno:

Maybe it's not too late

The brand name = PartsmasterPro / #283 O-Ring

Generic = 1/2" OD x 5/16" ID x 3/32"
 
BrocLuno said:
Especially when you find those real early 78's that are actually 83 rpm, and other speeds. The PL120 has a large speed adjustment range :)
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How do you know if a record is mastered for 83 rpm. And what did you pay for this?

I have had one since 2007, bought it new mainly to have a reliable no-fuss 78 rpm player. Got it and a second headshell for about $180. Put on a Grado 78c and there ya go.

It also plays the original Billy Joel's Cold Spring Harbor nicely at -6%. They remastered the album many years later with this correction. I have both copies and there is no comparison whatsoever between them.
 
Frank Sol said:
I'm sorry I missed your question :dunno:

Maybe it's not too late

The brand name = PartsmasterPro / #283 O-Ring

Generic = 1/2" OD x 5/16" ID x 3/32"
Click to expand...




Thanks! You know, the one thing I don't like about the PL120 is that the counterweight is not heavy enough. I contacted AT to see if they had a heavier one, but they don't, and with the majority of cartridges (unless the cartridge weighs less than 3 grams!), the counterweight always sits WAAAAAAY back on the counterweight post. I don't like that!! The arm performs much better and is more stable when the counterweight is closer to the pivot.
 
iLUVanalog said:
Thanks! You know, the one thing I don't like about the PL120 is that the counterweight is not heavy enough. I contacted AT to see if they had a heavier one, but they don't, and with the majority of cartridges (unless the cartridge weighs less than 3 grams!), the counterweight always sits WAAAAAAY back on the counterweight post. I don't like that!! The arm performs much better and is more stable when the counterweight is closer to the pivot.
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That can be a problem with the A-T '120s, especially with 78rpms' high rotational speeds. I have several 78s so aggressively warped that tracking at 3 grams (the max recommended for my Shure 78 stylus) the stylus will be thrown off the record. Anything much over 3.25 grams will see the cantilever pushed against the bottom of the cartridge. If the counterweight were heavier it would rest closer to the pivot and make directional transitions better. (Yes, critics, I need to do something about this - a tougher stylus assembly - and I have purchased a 1-Lb weight which does help a little...) Record warps at around 78rpm do put a lot of unwanted momentum into a warp, and the "PL" and "LP" 120's light counterweighted tonearm isn't the best at handling that. In fact, I have even had a badly warped 45 (since replaced) which my PL120 couldn't track while my SL1210MK5 (same tracking force, heavier counterweight) managed to successfully handle the challenge of staying with the groove.
 
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I also own the non-USB PL120, and I have no complaints about the price / performance ratio, The stock cart is nothing to write home about and the internal preamp isn't something you want to listen to much (I don't use it) but with an at440mla and an M78S it does yeoman duty as a second system in the mancave auditioning newly acquired vinyl and playing 78's. I've also lent it out a few times for people wanting to get back into vinyl and that's not something I would do with my other tables. It's far better than some of the old BIC/Garard/VM tables or the "USB" tables the big box stores sell.
 
You are right in that respect

ec1st said:
That can be a problem with the A-T '120s, especially with 78rpms' high rotational speeds. I have several 78s so aggressively warped that tracking at 3 grams (the max recommended for my Shure 78 stylus) the stylus will be thrown off the record. Anything much over 3.25 grams will see the cantilever pushed against the bottom of the cartridge. If the counterweight were heavier it would rest closer to the pivot and make directional transitions better. (Yes, critics, I need to do something about this - a tougher stylus assembly - and I have purchased a 1-Lb weight which does help a little...) Record warps at around 78rpm do put a lot of unwanted momentum into a warp, and the "PL" and "LP" 120's light counterweighted tonearm isn't the best at handling that. In fact, I have even had a badly warped 45 (since replaced) which my PL120 couldn't track while my SL1210MK5 (same tracking force, heavier counterweight) managed to successfully handle the challenge of staying with the groove.
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Quite right...but a very easy fix with some heavy duty washers. Add them as weights behind the main counterweight on the shaft and you can get the weight closer to the pivot...:D
 
iLUVanalog said:
hey frank....sorry if this is a redundant question, but what size o-rings did you use? i'm thinking of doing that for my SL1200 and PL120. thanks! steve
Click to expand...

I just went out and bought the rubber O-rings per Frank's recommendation. (Found some at HD for $2.27 called Danco #83 => 1/2" OD X 5/16" X 3/32")

I installed them on a Pioneer 514 that I listened to for several hours last night and yes, they improved some details and bass by a little bit.

Whe you install them you have to pre-spread them to get over the collet that holds the headshell so be careful.

Also remember to reset your VTF after you install them and that anytime you move an o-ring after that you have to check balance and VTF.

I assume that Frank did extensive R&D testing on the position so I put them in about the same place he did.

I did not do a blind A-B test ... :D but I think I can hear a little bit more goodness.

cheers, Bob
 
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bobins08 said:
I assume that Frank did extensive R&D testing on the position so I put them in about the same place he did.
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:lmao:

I once thought the curved area needed the o-rings but have been told that is the least area of concern

The area right behind the collet/headshell is the primary spot
 
arcorob said:
Quite right...but a very easy fix with some heavy duty washers. Add them as weights behind the main counterweight on the shaft and you can get the weight closer to the pivot...:D
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good idea rob. what inner diameter for those washers (i'm assuming you mean metal washers). thanks.

steve
 
Sorry but I have come to really enjoy this TT. It's not the price but I was impressed by its ability to sound much better than many over priced ego named pieces of equipment.:thmbsp::thmbsp:
 
jon56 said:
Sorry but I have come to really enjoy this TT. It's not the price but I was impressed by its ability to sound much better than many over priced ego named pieces of equipment.:thmbsp::thmbsp:
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And those "over priced ego named pieces of equipment" would be ... ? Please name names and model numbers.

For the record, I've read the spec sheets on the turntables that Hanpin builds for Audio-Technica and I've seen the Stanton-badged turntables that come out of that same Chinese plant. The specs and build quality are commensurate with the retail price and suggest that the PL-120 could maybe hold its own with mass-market Japanese turntables from the mid-1980s and later. As for embarrassing the likes of Rega or Clearaudio, that's notgonnahappen.com.
 
Dr T, I don't disagree with you but I would point out that the Chinese make some outstanding turntables, such as Well Tempered, for example. They, like everyone else, build to a price, but it doesn't represent what is possible, given the resources.
 
grottyash said:
Dr T, I don't disagree with you but I would point out that the Chinese make some outstanding turntables, such as Well Tempered, for example. They, like everyone else, build to a price, but it doesn't represent what is possible, given the resources.
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I agree 100% with your point that Chinese companies can make outstanding turntables. The Well Tempered and some of the Opera Consonance offerings are proof of that.
 
Regarding the counterweight...perhaps not the most sightly thing, but has anyone considered adding lead tape, like as used on golf clubs to add weight or change center of gravity?
 
Not a bad idea

DustyOldPile said:
Regarding the counterweight...perhaps not the most sightly thing, but has anyone considered adding lead tape, like as used on golf clubs to add weight or change center of gravity?
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Anything to add weight. One could add it directly to the counterweight (the stick on type lead weight) at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions for balance. 10 gram weights would add a total of 40 (which is higher than the 35 for my washers) and be about perfect :yes:
 
Frank Sol said:
I'm sorry I missed your question :dunno:

Maybe it's not too late

The brand name = PartsmasterPro / #283 O-Ring

Generic = 1/2" OD x 5/16" ID x 3/32"
Click to expand...




Frank, just got back from "The Depot" with the o-rings. I hadn't noticed Bobins' post above to make sure to pre-stretch the o-rings to make it easier to install. Great advice coz these things don't stretch much at all. I'll pre-stretch them for a few minutes and then try.
 
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Well I got the o-rings around the tonearm according to Frank Sol's configuration, and I have to agree with Bobins....I have to admit I hear a clearer sonic picture. I like the results....and I came up with a fairly easy way to install the o-rings. I used the cap of a big Sharpie marker (oval shape) to pre-spread the o-rings for a couple of minutes. The cap was big enough that it easily fit over the collet of the tonearm. Then I just slid each o-ring carefully off the Sharpie cap and right onto the tonearm, and then just slid each one to its position on the tonearm.

For informational purposes, this is the system currently in use:....

Music Hall Maven receiver
Technics SL-1200 Mk2
AT-95HE cartridge
Cambridge Audio 551P MM-only phono preamp
Tannoy Mercury M2 "Birdseye" speakers

I'm really liking the results with the o-rings on the tonearm, and my AT-PL120 in the living room is next!

Steve
 
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