AT tr441u cart

[Analog Dawg]

Hi all. Any knowledge about the AT tr441u cartridge? The cart is matched with a technics Al-qx200 TT that I just purchased. Thanks.

 

[salamander]

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/audio-technica/tr441.shtml

 

[Analog Dawg]

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/audio-technica/tr441.shtml

Thanks Salamander…yeah I saw that vinyl engine data sheet. I was hoping somebody had personal experience with the cart.

 

[wualta]

While I don't have a TRN441U stylus, the Transducer Research "brand" is a rerun of the normal AT3472 p-mount family. If you look closely at your TRN441U's diamond, I suspect you'll see a nude-mount "tombstone" that looks like this:

If so, you have what Audio-Technica called the ATN3472NE, which was sold as a "6006", a DR750, a PT600, a TC236EP, etc etc. You get the idea. They're all the same stylus, and the body they all came attached to was a single body. To differentiate them, the styli were different colors. My 6006es are gray, the DR750 is orange, the PT600 is blue, and so on. It turns out to be a very good stylus, the best elliptical A-T made for this generation of p-mounts. If the diamond is in good shape, it should sound good and track well at the design VTF of 1.25g.

 

[Analog Dawg]

Awesome wualta. So helpful. I will take a look at the diamond after Christmas (I bought my own gift for my sons). Above is a photo from the FB marketplace seller of my Technics sl-qx200 TT that has what looks to be the 6006es stylus on the cart (tough to see but it is gray). However, the guy mentioned that he might have replaced the stylus at some point so a closer look is needed. If the stylus has been downgraded by the previous owner or is in bad shape I will try to find an aftermarket replacement. Do you know the model # of the modern day equivalent of the ATN3472NE? Thanks again.

 

[lini]

(...) Do you know the model # of the modern day equivalent of the ATN3472NE?

Unfortunately there is none - or respectively at least none by AT, that is. AT nowadays only offers a bonded conical (ATN81CP) as well as a medium-sharp bonded elliptical (ATN85EP), which is about on ATN3472SE level, for this family of T4P/P-mount carts.

Oh, and maybe you've already noticed it: Originally these needles all used to have a symbol coding. Filled circle for the bonded conical (ATN3472C (or -P) - provided it would sport an alu cantilever, that is (*)), filled ellipse for the comparatively blunt, bonded elliptical (ATN3472BE), small fllled ellipse with additional elliptical outline for the medium-sharp, bonded elliptical (ATN3472SE), elliptical outline only for the nude, medium-sharp elliptical (ATN3472NE) - and finally a filled shibata (flat teardrop) for the bonded LinearContact (ATN3472LC). So if the previous owner has replaced the needle with one of those original AT needles, checking for the symbol should suffice.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

*) If it would sport a black carbon cantilever instead, it would rather be an ATN3482P.

 

[Analog Dawg]

Thanks lini. I will check it out. I’m hoping that it’s an original nude mount rather than bonded and in good shape…that would be a big score considering I paid $80 for the turntable (in great condition) and cart. If I have to replace the stylus I will just have to look online (prob lp gear) and pick one.

 

[wualta]

...Above is a photo ... of what looks to be the 6006es stylus ... However, the guy mentioned that he might have replaced the stylus ...

I don't want to have confused you by my attempt to pluralize "6006". I wanted to emphasize my appreciation of this stylus by showing I had more than one of it, collected some years back when it was relatively easy to do.
The TR441U stylus is blue. It's likely that, as the seller said, the stylus has been changed. We'll have to wait and see.

My advice: Don't be afraid of Audio-Technica's current p-mount styli for your TR441U cartridge. They're high bang/buck. But there are other p-mount choices, despite being much fewer than before. Poke around AudioKarma and other audio forums for what's available these days for p-mount turntables, and ignore the undercurrent of p-mount hate.

 

[Analog Dawg]

I don't want to have confused you by my attempt to pluralize "6006". I wanted to emphasize my appreciation of this stylus by showing I had more than one of it, collected some years back when it was relatively easy to do.
The TR441U stylus is blue. It's likely that, as the seller said, the stylus has been changed. We'll have to wait and see.

My advice: Don't be afraid of Audio-Technica's current p-mount styli for your TR441U cartridge. They're high bang/buck. But there are other p-mount choices, despite being much fewer than before. Poke around AudioKarma and other audio forums for what's available these days for p-mount turntables, and ignore the undercurrent of p-mount hate.

While I don't have a TRN441U stylus, the Transducer Research "brand" is a rerun of the normal AT3472 p-mount family. If you look closely at your TRN441U's diamond, I suspect you'll see a nude-mount "tombstone" that looks like this:
View attachment 2413841
If so, you have what Audio-Technica called the ATN3472NE, which was sold as a "6006", a DR750, a PT600, a TC236EP, etc etc. You get the idea. They're all the same stylus, and the body they all came attached to was a single body. To differentiate them, the styli were different colors. My 6006es are gray, the DR750 is orange, the PT600 is blue, and so on. It turns out to be a very good stylus, the best elliptical A-T made for this generation of p-mounts. If the diamond is in good shape, it should sound good and track well at the design VTF of 1.25g.
View attachment 2413843 View attachment 2413846 View attachment 2413848 View attachment 2413850 View attachment 2413851

Wualta:




I finally had a chance to inspect the cart/stylus (see above photo). It looks identical to the cart pictured at the far right of your original post. It has 603 printed below the at logo in black plug area.

I still have no idea if this is an original nude stylus or a replacement. Any ideas? Thanks for your insight.

 

[wualta]

It looks like an original A-T stylus to me, appropriate to the model name on the cartridge body. The color doesn't really matter.
The "603" is likely a date-of-manufacture code, but could also be something as basic as the number of the mold from which it sprang.

 

[Analog Dawg]

It looks like an original A-T stylus to me, appropriate to the model name on the cartridge body. The color doesn't really matter.
The "603" is likely a date-of-manufacture code, but could also be something as basic as the number of the mold from which it sprang.

Thanks. Score! Is it a good assumption that a nude bond will wear down slower than a bonded and I should have greater playing hours without distortion or sibilance?

 

[wualta]

Not sure what you mean by "nude bond", but I think what you have in mind is stylus lifetime, all other things being equal, comparing a line-contact diamond to an elliptical or conical.

 

[Analog Dawg]

Not sure what you mean by "nude bond", but I think what you have in mind is stylus lifetime, all other things being equal, comparing a line-contact diamond to an elliptical or conical.

Yes, not sure what the technical terms are but I’m wondering if my nude-mount diamond versus a bonded stylus means a longer stylus, as you say, “lifetime” before it needs replacing due wear. Thanks.

 

[lini]

A_D: No, the main difference is weight - nude tips already are lighter in "anything else equal" cases simply due to lower densitiy/specific weight (most so in case of regular bondig sockets (most typically stainless steel)), and then often enough also have smaller to way smaller shanks. But what's actually in contact with the groove, will be diamond for both nude and bonded tips. There can be additional differences, though - like for example in general diamond quality and polishing quality. And in case of nude tips you can pretty much expect grain orientation having been heeded, in case of bonded tips not necessarily. Also there even can be differences in the actual tip shape ("true elliptical" vs. "pseudo-elliptical"). Some of that can also have an influence on wear, but typically not as much as going for a line-contact type tip shape with larger major radius.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Analog Dawg]

A_D: No, the main difference is weight - nude tips already are lighter in "anything else equal" cases simply due to lower densitiy/specific weight (most so in case of regular bondig sockets (most typically stainless steel)), and then often enough also have smaller to way smaller shanks. But what's actually in contact with the groove, will be diamond for both nude and bonded tips. There can be additional differences, though - like for example in general diamond quality and polishing quality. And in case of nude tips you can pretty much expect grain orientation having been heeded, in case of bonded tips not necessarily. Also there even can be differences in the actual tip shape ("true elliptical" vs. "pseudo-elliptical"). Some of that can also have an influence on wear, but typically not as much as going for a line-contact type tip shape with larger major radius.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Thanks Lini. Considering it’s really unlikely that I would get a replacement for the original stylus that is better than just about any replacement (at least in my price range), I was hoping the stylus tip was a bit “hardier” than bonded…but alas. Thanks again.