AT-VM95ML shaking, jumping out of grooves

[Carbon653]

Hi AK users!

I have an AT-LP120X turntable (for 6-7 months now) and I've been happy with it so far.

I loved the sound of the original AT-VM95E cart that it came with, but it had horrible inner groove distortion, so that's why I planned buying a MicroLine instead.

I bought an AT-VM95ML, and a HS10 headshell to go with it; this way I could easily swap out the new cartridge to the old one, if I wanted for some reason, by replacing the headshell.

I tried to align it using different protractors, but this would always happen.


On most of my records the cartridge is wiggling, shaking right and left, and on a couple of records this even causes it to skip, jump out of the groove.

It either happens at the beginning of a record, or close to its end.

What I did, is I replaced the stylus to the 95ML on my original, factory aligned cartridge, and it's still happening.. :-(

Soundwise it's really good. It's only distorting on really long records, that were heavily used; but between songs I can hear a quiet wind like (whoosh) noise.

It's like this most of the time (on some records better, some records worse):

https://youtube.com/shorts/wKgmbTXk8aE?feature=share

 

[Carbon653]

PS: I'm using 2.16 gram tracking force (measured with scale)

 

[Grenadeslio]

dirty stylus? faulty stylus?

do you have a jewellers loupe to examine the stylus, it wouldn't be the first mounted incorrectly

Also, as you've changed to a microline stylus profile are you able to adjust VTA on your table, it's much more critical with these more exotic cuts.

 

[Carbon653]

dirty stylus? faulty stylus?

do you have a jewellers loupe to examine the stylus, it wouldn't be the first mounted incorrectly

Unfortunately I don't have any kind of magnifying glass, or loupe.

I use an AT617a stylus cleaner gel to clean the needle after every side; but it behaved like this straight out the box.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Unfortunately I don't have any kind of magnifying glass, or loupe.

I use an AT617a stylus cleaner gel to clean the needle after every side; but it behaved like this straight out the box.

I purchased a new ClearAudio Concept, the balance was always off no matter what I tried, purchased a jewellers loupe to get a better look at the stylus, it was mounted at a 15-20 degree angle to one side lol.

I didn't install the cartridge for about a year after purchase so I couldn't return it, made a shim from a wood toothpick that solved the issue. But I was not happy, the cartridge now sits in a drawer with about 50hrs on it.



these have a fixed stylus so the only real fix is a retip, on this NEW cartridge, not going to happen, I'm happy with the other cartridges in my stable.

 

[Crab33]

The wind-like wooshing noise between tracks suggests to me that the VTA may be wrong. I got this same effect when I had the arm-height too high for an Ortofon Super-OM30 on a Technics SL1200. They say that the ML stylus is sensitive to VTA. Does the arm look like it is sloping down from pivot end to cartridge end?

At a guess, the shaking could be a stylus suspension problem. The VM95ML stylus is a little higher in compliance than the VM95E stylus, but I wouldn't have expected this kind of issue.

 

[Carbon653]

I purchased a new ClearAudio Concept, the balance was always off no matter what I tried, purchased a jewellers loupe to get a better look at the stylus, it was mounted at a 15-20 degree angle to one side lol.

I didn't install the cartridge for about a year after purchase so I couldn't return it, made a shim from a wood toothpick that solved the issue. But I was not happy, the cartridge now sits in a drawer with about 50hrs on it.

View attachment 2561081

these have a fixed stylus so the only real fix is a retip, on this NEW cartridge, not going to happen, I'm happy with the other cartridges in my stable.

Yeah, I'm really furious cause of this too, I was hoping that I could finally enjoy my inner grooves, but no, I cannot

Thanks for your tip, I'll try to get myself a loupe.

 

[Carbon653]

The wind-like wooshing noise between tracks suggests to me that the VTA may be wrong. I got this same effect when I had the arm-height too high for an Ortofon Super-OM30 on a Technics SL1200. They say that the ML stylus is sensitive to VTA. Does the arm look like it is sloping down from pivot end to cartridge end?

At a guess, the shaking could be a stylus suspension problem. The VM95ML stylus is a little higher in compliance than the VM95E stylus, but I wouldn't have expected this kind of issue.

It does look like it's sloping, actually. I thought it was adjusted correctly from factory, but I guess not.

Yeah, it has a little higher compliance, but Audio Technica pairs this cartridge with the same HS-6 headshell (the one that my turntable came with), as the VM95E.

 

[Grenadeslio]

It does look like it's sloping, actually. I thought it was adjusted correctly from factory, but I guess not.

Yeah, it has a little higher compliance, but Audio Technica pairs this cartridge with the same HS-6 headshell (the one that my turntable came with), as the VM95E.

the correct setting is what sounds best, with elliptical stylus a bit tail up gives a more forward presentation where tail down a warmer more laid back sound.

With a microline stylus profile the correct VTA is much more critical. I believe like the Technics SL1200 series your deck emulates it's VTA can be adjusted on the fly, you might want to try tweaking arm height a bit up and down while playing a record.

I would first setup the arm to level, set the correct VTF, then tweak the height looking for the sweet spot. Once set then check VTF again if the arm height has changed.

All of this of course assumes the cartridge is aligned correctly.

 

[Crab33]

I don't believe the arm-height is adjustable on the AT-LP120X. It may be OK for the elliptical of the VM95E but not the ML.You could try inserting an extra platter-mat (or a record) under the existing one to reduce the VTA and see if that makes a difference.

Stylus compliance is matched to the effective-mass of the arm (not just the headshell mass), but I wouldn't have envisaged any problem there. I'm wondering whether the stylus is simply faulty.

 

[Studio_D]

It's not the VTA. I own the same turntable and the same cartridge and it works flawlessly. I do have a Technics style rubber mat on mine but I agree it sounds like a defective stylus.

Update: I tested it with the felt mat and even with a warped record and it still works perfectly.

 

[ghamilton]

 

[triode]

Hi AK users!

I have an AT-LP120X turntable (for 6-7 months now) and I've been happy with it so far.

I loved the sound of the original AT-VM95E cart that it came with, but it had horrible inner groove distortion, so that's why I planned buying a MicroLine instead.

I bought an AT-VM95ML, and a HS10 headshell to go with it; this way I could easily swap out the new cartridge to the old one, if I wanted for some reason, by replacing the headshell.

I tried to align it using different protractors, but this would always happen.


On most of my records the cartridge is wiggling, shaking right and left, and on a couple of records this even causes it to skip, jump out of the groove.

It either happens at the beginning of a record, or close to its end.

What I did, is I replaced the stylus to the 95ML on my original, factory aligned cartridge, and it's still happening.. :-(

Soundwise it's really good. It's only distorting on really long records, that were heavily used; but between songs I can hear a quiet wind like (whoosh) noise.

It's like this most of the time (on some records better, some records worse):

https://youtube.com/shorts/wKgmbTXk8aE?feature=share

How did you check or do your alignment ? Please describe your process.
since you had igd issues even before you got the ml I'd recommend you do a second take on it. something may be off.

Also, in my opinon that kind of wobble or shake is compliance related. Either the stylus suspension is shot or your tonearm bearings are not smooth enough or there is some obstruction in the movement of the arm. Remove the stylus, zero out the anti skate, zero-weight-balance the arm so it floats, and *gently* nudge it up. It should swing up then back down on its own effortlesly, perhaps oscillate a little bit before it settles. Do this in all axes - down, left and right as well. If the arm does not swing smoothly and easily in any of these directions, especially at the ends (start and end) of the record, then your bearings are too tight or not lubed enough, or the tonearm wires are obtructing the movement of the arm.

Woosh sound - are you sure the cartridge lead wires are not too close to the record ?
show us a closeup side profile when its playing.

 

[patient_ot]

None of the AT styli I have had in the last ten years, including 4 different 95ml styli, behaved that way.

Something is off, and I'd put money on the TT, record, or turntable set up. I don't really trust the tonearms on Hanpin turntables. The examples I've examined did not inspire confidence.

How close are the speakers to the turntable?

 

[Decibel_116]

It is hard to tell what the issue is from just a video. But at first glance, I suspect a rumble-induced resonance due to a compliance mismatch. It could also be a defective stylus suspension that is introducing the compliance problem. Less likely, but possible, are tonearm bearings worn or out of adjustment.

 

[Classic_CJ]

The suggestion by triode to check for any interference with the tonearm bearings is is good one, I'd start there, but there's also the possibility that this later version of the AT-LP120 'table shares an issue with every earlier sample I ever setup for customers, and including the one I own myself-- which is that the anti-skate dial is grossly mis-calibrated, and applies way too little anti-skate for a given tracking pressure setting. For example, setting my machine for any cartridge tracking at 2 grams or less, I need to set the anti-skate at or near its maximum setting! (I test with test records and a scope to look for equal mistracking on both channels as modulation levels on the test record increase.

This degree of error could easily cause tracking issues, especially on a high compliance cartridge like most of the Audio-Technicas. For grins, after you've verified the arm bearings being OK, try setting the A/S the whole way up, and see what, if any, difference this makes with your issue.

 

[T68]

I was just thinking I was goint to be funny smart a** and post something like
"Stop playing Shake, Rattle and Roll" and you´ll be fine".
But fortunately i stopped myself from doing it.
Not fun when new expensive gear don´t work. Hope OP gets this sorted.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Consistent inner groove distortion suggests basic cartridge alignment and anti-skating adjustment issues. You really need to get precise with the two-point Baerwald or Stevenson protractors. Something must be off, especially with the inner point position.

You may want to look for a good, used test record. It may help narrow down anti-skating settings needed for the best tracking with your turntable and cartridge.

Posting close-up photos of your alignment points, may help.


Inner alignment point.


Outer alignment point.

 

[patient_ot]

The cartridge OP is using has a Western compliance around ~13 CU. Not high compliance. Compliance, alignment, and VTA are all red herrings in this case and are not going to solve OP's problem.

Let's see a picture of how OP has the turntable set up, how well isolated it is, how far the speakers are from the turntable, etc. What kind of flooring does OP have? These are all questions that need to be answered, preferably with detailed pictures.

OP, is it possible to try your new cartridge on a friend's turntable or a turntable at a stereo shop? If it causes the same problem on a known good turntable then we can start thinking about whether the cartridge might be defective.

 

[spark1]

My first thought was the obvious; that OP is getting feedback into theTT. I would be curious to know what the TT is sitting on, how his speakers are positioned relative to the table, what speakers he is using, is the bass control boosted, and is he running a subwoofer.

Hard to imagine how VTA or skating force could cause the problems he is having. Feedback or bad bearings...those are my guesses.

EDIT - Or bad stylus assembly/suspension. In fact, this may be most likely given that he did not have this problem with the initial cartridge (a fact which I overlooked earlier). It was good advice to try it on another table, if possible.