AT-VM95ML shaking, jumping out of grooves
And here is the cartridge alignment (Note: This is the factory alignment, I haven't touched this)
Outer point:
Inner point:
The inner point looks off to me.
And I really need to get a better protractor... The grids are really thin on this, and I can barely even see them.
Can you guys recommend a protractor for this setup, that I can print? (I don't want to spend money on it for now)
Outer point:
Inner point:
The inner point looks off to me.
And I really need to get a better protractor... The grids are really thin on this, and I can barely even see them.
Can you guys recommend a protractor for this setup, that I can print? (I don't want to spend money on it for now)
It seems pretty clear that your problem is not due to poor alignment. It may not be perfect, but slight offset issue is not going to cause it to jump out of the grooves.
Have you taken the various other steps that have suggested for isolating the cause?
Such as using that cartridge on a different table? Separating the table from the top of your receiver? Examining the stylus under magnification?
Have you taken the various other steps that have suggested for isolating the cause?
Such as using that cartridge on a different table? Separating the table from the top of your receiver? Examining the stylus under magnification?
triode
Well-Known Member
Ok see that's why pics are helpful. right off the bat I can see a few issues -
Yes the inner is off but First before you begin do not put the protractor on a soft mat. you see how it sags near the spindle ? That will throw your alignment off easily. Put it on a flat record.
Secondly paper protractors have some disadvantages and the biggest one is that you have to cut the spindle hole very very accurately otherwise all bets are off. I can see your's is not perfect. Search for the triangle cut method and use a sharp hobby knife.
Finally, and I not sure about this but experts can chime in - I see you are using a Fluance protractor. While there are $10 glass protractors available everywhere that are supposedly "universal" I am not sure if using a specific manufacturer's protractor is a good idea. They may have customized it for their tt geometry so just make sure it is a truly universal 2-point protractor.
and if you just can't get both points to align perfectly then you may indeed need a protractor specifically for your tt pivot to spindle distance.
You can find more protractors here - https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml
also search for Conrad Hoffman's arc protractor program.
Always keep your speakers on when doing alignment (or anything when the stylus is involved). It will help ensure you are not ripping off or bumping the stylus or at least you will know if it happens.
Yes the inner is off but First before you begin do not put the protractor on a soft mat. you see how it sags near the spindle ? That will throw your alignment off easily. Put it on a flat record.
Secondly paper protractors have some disadvantages and the biggest one is that you have to cut the spindle hole very very accurately otherwise all bets are off. I can see your's is not perfect. Search for the triangle cut method and use a sharp hobby knife.
Finally, and I not sure about this but experts can chime in - I see you are using a Fluance protractor. While there are $10 glass protractors available everywhere that are supposedly "universal" I am not sure if using a specific manufacturer's protractor is a good idea. They may have customized it for their tt geometry so just make sure it is a truly universal 2-point protractor.
and if you just can't get both points to align perfectly then you may indeed need a protractor specifically for your tt pivot to spindle distance.
You can find more protractors here - https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml
also search for Conrad Hoffman's arc protractor program.
Always keep your speakers on when doing alignment (or anything when the stylus is involved). It will help ensure you are not ripping off or bumping the stylus or at least you will know if it happens.
So, are you suggesting that his imperfect alignment is causing the stylus to jump out of the grooves?
OP, please just measure the distance from gasket to stylus tip. Please.
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Agreed. The OP early on claimed to have tried different ptotractors, but now says he is using the "factory" alignment...by which he apparently means he is using the cartridge as it came in the headshell. Clearly small variances can affect IGD, but I am trying to get a handle on what is causing the gross tracking problems he describes.
If he would just do the measurement I asked for, we would know if he is at least close to correct for his TT.
Like you, don't believe he should have needed to convert to the ML to tame IGD...that issue most probably is an alignment problem.
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Unfortunately, I don't have another turntable, and I don't know anyone who has one.
Yeah I've put it next to the receiver, but it was the same.
And I still don't have a loupe, I have to get one, and I'll test it.
I measured it, and it's right around 52.0 millimeters
You can use a magnifying glass. You are just trying to see if the stylus is damaged or has a chunk of something on it
That confirms it is in the ballpark. The ML shape is very sensitive to alignment, but not to the extent that being off by a small bit would cause the extreme issue you are having.
I can't remember anymore...did you say that it tracks fine with the elliptical stylus?
I used 2 different protractors, when I was trying to align this cartridge on the HS10 headshell. I thought I got it right, but it was shaking, and jumping out, so I removed the 95E stylus from the original cartridge, and replaced it with the 95ML (this is the setup on the video, and the pictures). This way, it uses the same alignment the 95E worked with; but it still doesn't work.
I hope it's clear this way.
Although the elliptical had awful IGD, it was never shaking like this, and it never jumped out of the grooves.
I think I should examine the stylus with a magnifying glass, and if it's visually bad, I'll try to get a replacement.
It seems pretty clear to me that alignment is NOT the cause of the shaking and jumping you are experiencing.
However, you certainly could benefit from a better alignment, once you get the big problem resolved. I have set up 95e's on a number of tables, and have had no issues with excessive inner groove distortion.
However, you certainly could benefit from a better alignment, once you get the big problem resolved. I have set up 95e's on a number of tables, and have had no issues with excessive inner groove distortion.
Just out of curiosity, what is this dial set at, on your deck?
Thanks!
Thanks!
The tonearm height is not adjustable on my TT. It was, on the original AT-LP120, but they removed this feature for some reason on the AT-LP120X.
The tonearm looks like it's angled down from pivot to cartridge, but there's nothing I can do about it.
patient_ot
Super Member
What were the results of the tonearm tests I suggested? Where's the picture of the full stereo system?
If you think the stylus is dirty you try cleaning it with a bit of magic eraser or AT stylus cleaner. Also you can inspect for dirt with a magnifier or loupe.
VTA is a red herring here. Being off by a few mm is not going to cause the problems described here. A crappy tonearm with improper assembly or poorly adjusted bearings would.
Likewise, the ML stylus digs deep in the groove and will dredge up dirt on filthy old records. Many homebrew record cleaning methods are not as effective as people think and will make mud on a record that dries in the grooves later or leaves a lot of residue behind.
If you think the stylus is dirty you try cleaning it with a bit of magic eraser or AT stylus cleaner. Also you can inspect for dirt with a magnifier or loupe.
VTA is a red herring here. Being off by a few mm is not going to cause the problems described here. A crappy tonearm with improper assembly or poorly adjusted bearings would.
Likewise, the ML stylus digs deep in the groove and will dredge up dirt on filthy old records. Many homebrew record cleaning methods are not as effective as people think and will make mud on a record that dries in the grooves later or leaves a lot of residue behind.
I overlooked the video that the OP included in his first post until now. Frankly, I don't see a problem there. Based on his comments, I was picturing a cartridge very visibly vibrating and jumping, as I have seen occur with feedback problems. Instead, all I see is a very small amount of seemingly normal waver in sections with heavier bass content (wider grooves). That, and perhaps the stylus assembly not being properly/fully coupled to the cartridge body...unlikely, and impossible to tell without closer pics from the side.
Assuming that the assembly is properly and fully coupled, if the stylus is indeed jumping out of the grooves, and in the absence of a severe warp or scratch and even when the volume is at zero, and only in the very first or very last grooves, and with a cart that is at least fairly well aligned and has a proper tracking force (both of which have been confirmed), the remaining suspects are a) bearing problems, or b) serious issues with the antiskate mechanism., or c) problems with the ML stylus.
The OP says that the elliptical stylus does not exhibit the same problems, which would seem to rule out a) and b). However, he says the elliptical exhibits severe IGD.
He also mentioned that at least some of his albums are heavily worn. This might explain at least a portion of what he is calling IGD. I would suggest using a known good LP and then make real-time adjustments to the anti-skate setting to see if he can improve this issue.
In my view, if he gets a proper protractor (or uses the one he has more correctly), and gets the bias set correctly (by ear!), he should be able to get any IGD to a very acceptable level with the elliptical. If so, he could then swap the elliptical stylus assembly out for the the ML (after assuring is clean and mechanically sound). If he then still has problems with it jumping out of the groove, it should be returned, as the problem must be the diamond itself or the suspension.
Assuming that the assembly is properly and fully coupled, if the stylus is indeed jumping out of the grooves, and in the absence of a severe warp or scratch and even when the volume is at zero, and only in the very first or very last grooves, and with a cart that is at least fairly well aligned and has a proper tracking force (both of which have been confirmed), the remaining suspects are a) bearing problems, or b) serious issues with the antiskate mechanism., or c) problems with the ML stylus.
The OP says that the elliptical stylus does not exhibit the same problems, which would seem to rule out a) and b). However, he says the elliptical exhibits severe IGD.
He also mentioned that at least some of his albums are heavily worn. This might explain at least a portion of what he is calling IGD. I would suggest using a known good LP and then make real-time adjustments to the anti-skate setting to see if he can improve this issue.
In my view, if he gets a proper protractor (or uses the one he has more correctly), and gets the bias set correctly (by ear!), he should be able to get any IGD to a very acceptable level with the elliptical. If so, he could then swap the elliptical stylus assembly out for the the ML (after assuring is clean and mechanically sound). If he then still has problems with it jumping out of the groove, it should be returned, as the problem must be the diamond itself or the suspension.
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triode
Well-Known Member
Its amazing how much zoom can be achieved on a modern cellphone camera, (or the magnifier app). This is from my iPhone -
and here's a cool tip - you can screen mirror (airplay) the pic from your phone to a big screen hd tv and see a much bigger image.
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