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AT-VM95ML shaking, jumping out of grooves

patient_ot said:
The cartridge OP is using has a Western compliance around ~13 CU. Not high compliance. Compliance, alignment, and VTA are all red herrings in this case and are not going to solve OP's problem.

Let's see a picture of how OP has the turntable set up, how well isolated it is, how far the speakers are from the turntable, etc. What kind of flooring does OP have? These are all questions that need to be answered, preferably with detailed pictures.

OP, is it possible to try your new cartridge on a friend's turntable or a turntable at a stereo shop? If it causes the same problem on a known good turntable then we can start thinking about whether the cartridge might be defective.
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Yes, good close-up photos of his alignment and method of selecting tracking force and anti-skate settings may help a lot in the diagnosis. Resonance frequency from a test record may also help. :idea:
 
spark1 said:
My first thought was the obvious; that OP is getting feedback into theTT. I would be curious to know what the TT is sitting on, how his speakers are positioned relative to the table, what speakers he is using, is the bass control boosted, and is he running a subwoofer.

Hard to imagine how VTA or skating force could cause the problems he is having. Feedback or bad bearings...those are my guesses.
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Agreed.
 
Studio_D said:
It's not the VTA. I own the same turntable and the same cartridge and it works flawlessly. I do have a Technics style rubber mat on mine but I agree it sounds like a defective stylus.

Update: I tested it with the felt mat and even with a warped record and it still works perfectly.
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Yeah, many people say that this cart is a really good upgrade for this TT, so that's why I find that compliance issue strange..
 
This guy has been posting about this issue on other sites. On the SH forum he said that he purchased the cart/headshell combination specifically so he wouldn't have to align it. Doesn't want to be bothered. He refuses to check it and skirts around questions concerning that.
Until a verified alignment has been done, by a qualified person I'd just ignore this thread. It's frustrating to deal with a person that flat out refuses to take good advice from so many forum members.

BillWojo
 
If the OP ever returns, I think he can use the simpler, altho less exacting, method of measuring from the "back" of the rubber gasket at the part of the headshell which inserts into the tonearm, to the stylus tip. It should be 52 to 52.5mm. This will certainly get it close enough to rule out alignment as the cause.

I still lean towards feedback, or a faulty cartridge suspension. Egregiously light tracking force is another possibility, if the OP does not have a scale and does not understand the process of floating the tonearm and then calibrating the counterweight gauge to zero without turning the counterweight.
 
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Alignment and overhang are two different things are they not. The overhang simple puts the stylus tip at the optimal point as far as correct distance from spindle to pivot point, while the alignment is to make sure the cart is in correct alignment or as close to square to the groove as possible.

Is that not correct?
 
BillWojo said:
This guy has been posting about this issue on other sites. On the SH forum he said that he purchased the cart/headshell combination specifically so he wouldn't have to align it. Doesn't want to be bothered. He refuses to check it and skirts around questions concerning that.
Until a verified alignment has been done, by a qualified person I'd just ignore this thread. It's frustrating to deal with a person that flat out refuses to take good advice from so many forum members.

BillWojo
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I had this funny feeling we were not getting the whole story. That's is why photos are nice. To help confirm the online diagnosis.

minion thumbs up (background).jpg
 
Ken Boyd said:
Alignment and overhang are two different things are they not. The overhang simple puts the stylus tip at the optimal point as far as correct distance from spindle to pivot point, while the alignment is to make sure the cart is in correct alignment or as close to square to the groove as possible.

Is that not correct?
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Not if you just need a quick manufacturer stock alignment without a protractor. Most turntable manufacturers just specify overhang in owners manuals, some include an overhang gauge, and that's it, which for this tt is 16mm. Not many tt users do a protractor alignment.

Now if you were doing a non-oem alignment with an aftermarket protractor then yes you do need to make sure the cartridge is square at the alignment points on the protractor.
 
Ken Boyd said:
Alignment and overhang are two different things are they not. The overhang simple puts the stylus tip at the optimal point as far as correct distance from spindle to pivot point, while the alignment is to make sure the cart is in correct alignment or as close to square to the groove as possible.

Is that not correct?
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Overhang is a an outcome of a chosen alignment. It is not something one "sets" when using a protractor.
 
Ken Boyd said:
Alignment and overhang are two different things are they not. The overhang simple puts the stylus tip at the optimal point as far as correct distance from spindle to pivot point, while the alignment is to make sure the cart is in correct alignment or as close to square to the groove as possible.

Is that not correct?
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I may not have the terms right, but my understanding is that alignment consists of both overhang and offset angle, and that both of these will be different depending on the alignment scheme you prefer, such as Stevenson or Baerwald. With, for example, a simple 2-point protractor, you don't need to worry about what the actual overhang and offset angle values are, but both will be properly set when the stylus is aligned according to the protractor you are using.
 
triode said:
How did you check or do your alignment ? Please describe your process.
since you had igd issues even before you got the ml I'd recommend you do a second take on it. something may be off.

Also, in my opinon that kind of wobble or shake is compliance related. Either the stylus suspension is shot or your tonearm bearings are not smooth enough or there is some obstruction in the movement of the arm. Remove the stylus, zero out the anti skate, zero-weight-balance the arm so it floats, and *gently* nudge it up. It should swing up then back down on its own effortlesly, perhaps oscillate a little bit before it settles. Do this in all axes - down, left and right as well. If the arm does not swing smoothly and easily in any of these directions, especially at the ends (start and end) of the record, then your bearings are too tight or not lubed enough, or the tonearm wires are obtructing the movement of the arm.

Woosh sound - are you sure the cartridge lead wires are not too close to the record ?
show us a closeup side profile when its playing.
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I did the same thing, that was posted in a video above, and everything was fine with the 95E (except the IGD, which was fine for a cheap elliptical, I think I'm just too sensitive about it).
But I'll describe it, just to be sure. I leveled the turntable by putting an Ortofon bubble at around the middle of the platter, approximately where the stylus would be at the middle of a record; then I adjusted the legs of the turntable, till it became fully leveled.
I turned the counter weight on the tonearm, till the tonearm didn't react anything to lowering the cueing device (till it began floating flat). Then I set the little plastic thingy on the counter weight (don't know it's name, sorry lol) to zero. I adjusted the counter weight to sit right at around 2 grams of tracking force, and added the same amount of anti skating (2) to it.

I used the 95E for 6 months this way, and it worked flawlessly. I bought the 95ML then, and it sounded fine, but was wiggling, and jumping at some places. I thought that I did a bad adjustment, so I've put the stylus from the ML cartridge to my original, factory 95E cartridge body (which should be perfectly aligned), and it didn't help.

If the stylus suspension is shot, then I got a defective cart from factory, because it's new. I bought the TT new too, and it didn't get too much use, so the bearings are definitely not worn. I'll try out the bearing testing method tomorrow, thanks for your help.

The lead wires are not even close to the record, and this "whooshing" sound didn't happen with the 95E. But I can give you a pic tomorrow, if you need it.
 
patient_ot said:
None of the AT styli I have had in the last ten years, including 4 different 95ml styli, behaved that way.

Something is off, and I'd put money on the TT, record, or turntable set up. I don't really trust the tonearms on Hanpin turntables. The examples I've examined did not inspire confidence.

How close are the speakers to the turntable?
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I wrote down how I set it up earlier, you can check it out. I know it's not the best turntable, but many people use these, and don't have these kinds of problems with them; the AT-VM95ML should be a great upgrade for it.

The speakers are 1 - 1,5 meters (3.3 - 4.9 feet), but it's happening even when the volume is all the way down, so I don't think that has to do anything with it.
 
Decibel_116 said:
It is hard to tell what the issue is from just a video. But at first glance, I suspect a rumble-induced resonance due to a compliance mismatch. It could also be a defective stylus suspension that is introducing the compliance problem. Less likely, but possible, are tonearm bearings worn or out of adjustment.
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Another user wrote that he/she has the same setup, and it's working fine.

How can I examine the stylus suspension? Because if it's defective, I have to return it ASAP.

The TT is around 6 months old, so it's not worn, and I bought it brand new, so I think it's adjusted correctly.
 
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