AT95 Special Edition

[boreas]

Pretty sure the two are compatible and the stylus is the sole reason for the higher output.

I think you're right. As far as I know, there's no difference in the bodies at all.

Look at how much larger the cantilever is on the 3400 compared to the 95E.[/QUOTE]

The cantilever, in addition to being fatter on the AT-3400, is made of carbon fiber instead of aluminum as on the AT-95E.

John

 

[neobop]

Interesting.

I have a AT450E OCC cartridge and currently have 3 stylii for it - an original
AT450E, a AT130E and a AT440MLa. I have to say the AT440MLa is slightly
quieter than the two ellipticals, not a huge difference but fairly noticable when
switching between stylii whilst listening through headphones.

Or perhaps the ellipticals are noisier than the Microline? :scratch2:

James H

That is interesting. The specs for the 450E OCC are 5mV, 790 ohms and 490mH. That's from the cart database.

The 130E is 5mV, 3200 ohms and 490mH.

The 440MLa is 4mV, 3200 ohms and 490mH

Maybe the resistance spec is off for the 450? Maybe the MLa has weaker magnets? They must be weaker than the 440 OCC cause the other specs are identical.

Here's something even more confusing - I have an old spec comparison sheet for the 90,91,93,94E, and 95E. They all have 3.5mV, 2800 ohm impedance. They also have 480mH except the 93 and 95 which have 400mH. Now I see what it is. The 93 and 95 have alum cantilevers and the others have carbon fiber. The 94 even has a .4 x .7 on carbon fiber.

Conclusion - the 3400 must have way more inductance than the 95. It came with a carbon fiber cantilever and 5mV out.

 

[dlaloum]

That is interesting. The specs for the 450E OCC are 5mV, 790 ohms and 490mH. That's from the cart database.

The 130E is 5mV, 3200 ohms and 490mH.

The 440MLa is 4mV, 3200 ohms and 490mH

Maybe the resistance spec is off for the 450? Maybe the MLa has weaker magnets? They must be weaker than the 440 OCC cause the other specs are identical.

Here's something even more confusing - I have an old spec comparison sheet for the 90,91,93,94E, and 95E. They all have 3.5mV, 2800 ohm impedance. They also have 480mH except the 93 and 95 which have 400mH. Now I see what it is. The 93 and 95 have alum cantilevers and the others have carbon fiber. The 94 even has a .4 x .7 on carbon fiber.

Conclusion - the 3400 must have way more inductance than the 95. It came with a carbon fiber cantilever and 5mV out.

790ohm sounds about right for resistance - but unusual for impedance
3200ohm sounds right for impedance not resistance.

Impedance and resistance often get mixed up - but they are not the same measurement.

The AT440MLa has 3200ohm impedance (spec), and I have measured the resistance on mine at 773ohm (758/787 respectively for the two channels)

The inductance and impedance specs are usually within +/-10% (tighter specs as you go up the range...)

The quoted 790ohm resistance sounds about right for a 3200ohm impedance cartridge - without actually measuring them, my assumption would still be that these bodies are identical internally...

bye for now

david

 

[james73_2010]

Just a further post on my point about the AT440MLa stylus being "quieter" than
the AT450E & AT130 stylii that I use on the same cartridge, my AT450E OCC.


A while back I recorded a song to my PC direct from the turntable, one continuous
recording, without adjusting recording volume levels. The section in black was
the recording done with the AT450E stylus, the bit in blue with the AT440MLa. The
only post-recording edits made where to remove the gap when I lifted the
tonearm back and changed the stylus. I trimmed that bit out.

You can see the sound levels made with the AT450E are slightly higher. :scratch2:

:scratch2:


James H

 

[dlaloum]

Just a thought....:

Have you tried normalising the two recordings based on their RMS levels?

If the magnets are of slightly differing strength, it would account for a slight variation in level.

Normalising the two recording based on their respective average RMS level, would then give you a clear idea of whether the difference is related to output (average level) or to tracking ability (peak level).

A magnet difference should show up as a change in both average and peak levels (everything rises).

A difference in tracking ability might show up as a greater difference between the peaks and the average - the stylus is tracking dynamics more effectively.
Which could be caused by reduced stylus mass, better profile, improved rigidity etc... etc...

bye for now

David

 

[lini]

(...) Here's something even more confusing - I have an old spec comparison sheet for the 90,91,93,94E, and 95E. They all have 3.5mV, 2800 ohm impedance. They also have 480mH except the 93 and 95 which have 400mH. Now I see what it is. The 93 and 95 have alum cantilevers and the others have carbon fiber. The 94 even has a .4 x .7 on carbon fiber. (...)

Careful - that AT90 family actually is a mix of two families, with the AT90, AT91 and AT94E being AT3600 type and the 93 and 95E being AT3400 type.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[james73_2010]

Hi lini.

What's your opinion of the different output levels shown above by my AT450E OCC cartridge when I recorded the same LP with different stylii??

And before you ask, my AT130E stylus displays output levels very similar to my old AT450E stylus.


I have an ATN-112EP stylus in the post to me. It has the same stylus profile (bonded .4 x .7 elliptical) as my old AT-450E, except it's brand new. So, I'm looking forward to hearing it.

BTW - does anyone know where I could buy a stylus guard for the ATN-112EP stylus as, obviously, I dont already have one??


James H

 

[neobop]

Hi Lini,
Doesn't matter. I'm just reading the specs, output, impedance and inductance off an old 95 owners sheet. It looks like the ones from the 3600 family all had carbon fiber cantilevers and identical specs except more inductance. Even impedance and DC resistance are the same, which seems a little strange. Wouldn't it have more resistance with more windings? Maybe it's not enough to make a difference in resistance/impedance.

The 95 and 93 have 400mH, and the others have 480mH. Is there anything other than coil windings that contribute inductance?
neo

 

[dlaloum]

I am not sure but pole/core material might make a difference as well...

Very different designs (to the AT's) but the Shure V15's and Technics MM's used laminated core/poles....

 

[neobop]

I think it's safe to say that the 3400 - 5mV and carbon cantilever has a different generator than the 95.

I wish AT made a OCC version of the 95. It's such a listenable cart. What about the 110E, is that a 3400 or 3600 series?

 

[dlaloum]

I think it's safe to say that the 3400 - 5mV and carbon cantilever has a different generator than the 95.

I wish AT made a OCC version of the 95. It's such a listenable cart. What about the 110E, is that a 3400 or 3600 series?

Neither - although of the same family (the hole shape/size and fitting is the same, the stylus surround different)

And it is in fact OCC...

 

[lini]

David: Not quite - the AT110E is LC-OFC "only". But there also was a renewed version with PC-OCC, namely the AT420E/OCC.

And sorry, guys, I neither own an AT(N)440MLa, nor have I played around much with the AT3400 and AT3600 body and needle variants. So I can't really comment on the output level and spec variations. But, yes, the core/pole-piece material should make a difference in inductance.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Sansui Louie]

any reason why they left the logo off the 'special edition' stylus in that picture ?

Yeah....I think I'd be more comfortable with one that's branded.

 

[lini]

Totally forgot to mention, that we once had a black AT95E version over here, too - but that additionally sported the suffix "Pro" and was a bit better than the standard version.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Sultan swing]

Please, tell us more about the AT95e Pro!

 

[lini]

S_s: Sorry, man - as mentioned, I've never been really interested in the AT3400 and AT3600 family models. So I just noticed that the Pro version existed, but never cared about digging up proper specs or anything. Maybe I can dig up more info from a few owners in the German audio forums I visit, though...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Sultan swing]

I'm not that long in vinyl, but I've had 2 AT95's and never stumbled upon a Pro suffix! I would be very grateful to you or anyone that knows something about it to inform the rest of us.
Have a pleasant evening in Munich! (I'm from Zagreb, not that far away really)

 

[lini]

S_s: Just to let you know, I've already found and pm'ed one owner over here in the meantime. Waiting for a reply now...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Sultan swing]

OK, great!
Thank you!

 

[beej]

This is a most interesting thread. I currently have an AT95E stylus in a 3400 body mounted on my SL1200, MK2.