Bozak 919 Pre/929 Amp

[bktheking]

Well good luck getting it fixed. That Yahoo Bozak group is useless and I didn't see a service manual anywhere on the web, not even one you could pay money for. Personally I'll stick to companies that actually make equipment, not speaker companies that randomly decide to make a few pieces of gear, regret doing it, and then make none ever again. Most of what I've seen seems to show that if a speaker or equipment company makes a crossover product they don't make it anyway, so you're never getting a top notch product when they didn't design it themselves.

Getting it fixed- you mean fixing it. No luck needed- just a schematic and time. There is a schematic for sale for $16, i'll grab it if I need it. Bose made a great SS amp, also known for speakers. Altec made SS amps- also known for speakers. So what did you end up getting in the end? You do realize any amp has it's flaws- components fail. A good tech can repair ANYTHING- just depends on how far they want to take it. Transistors fail- I had a MAC ma6100- was in the repair shop 6 times before I got it. I redid an accuphase E202- was in the shop 5 times. You can't base "reliability" and "failure rates" on anything, vintage audio is a crap shoot.

 

[bktheking]

Oh and BTW- did you see the innards of that 919 "mixer preamp" as you call it? It's a bloody work of art, reminds me of accuphase built quality- i'm thinking the build on the amp is the same. That's how you know the stuff is good- has nothing to do with the case it's sitting in.

 

[Brian]

Well good luck getting it fixed. That Yahoo Bozak group is useless and I didn't see a service manual anywhere on the web, not even one you could pay money for. Personally I'll stick to companies that actually make equipment, not speaker companies that randomly decide to make a few pieces of gear, regret doing it, and then make none ever again. Most of what I've seen seems to show that if a speaker or equipment company makes a crossover product they don't make it anyway, so you're never getting a top notch product when they didn't design it themselves.

Bozak had multiple divisions and product lines. Yes, it started out as a speaker company but, companies do change.


The amp and preamp were designed by CM Labs and produced at Bozak. This means they are not some chicken feed designs. I agree that some problems gear makes for poor home audio units but others do. Considering the Crown Dc300 as an example of the former and a McIntosh MC2600/2500/2300 as examples of the latter. However, the Bozaks were not provide gear just sold to the home user but we're dedicated home audio units. They provided the basis for the products, not the other way around. When they came out their products market was rapidly shrinking except for their unique mixer and they had realized the future was with the home audio industry which was still growing as to high end, high quality units and there was a small growing resistance to foreign made units in that niche market.

I was a Bozak dealer during that period for their home audio products but was not into the project market. Their amp and preamp was as good as anything on my shelf as to sound and as for built they were as robust as Crown and McIntosh. We did sell a number of the amps along with the Crown DC300s for lab use as well as the government and for sound reinforcement. For me, the Crown was in no way acceptable for a good sounding home audio system while the Bozak easily was.

ARC makes some excellent tube units but, just never seemed to match that quality with their ss units. Not bad but just not outstanding. Unused their tube preamp and a pair of power amps (all tubes) for some years. I tried their earlier ss pieces and rated them about as good mediocre at best. I even preferred Marantz over them.

Whether they are your cup of tea can only be decided by you. No one else can tell you if the ARC is worth 3x the Bozaks and which, if either, you will like. It is a personal decision. For me the Bozaks would be a no brainer, I would go for them and build around them. In those hobby there is only one absolute; "if it don't work, it is broken".

The Bozak pair is rare and there are Bozak nuts running around. I was one for about the past 15 years running a set of Symphonys as main speakers and still having a pair of 302s. I do not follow the crowd but when I did just the mention of one of their amps or preamps being available had the boys drooling so I suspect having a pair should you not like them would be easy to move and recoup your money.

 

[Vistance]

Well, this is all moot point now - I told the guy I wasn't interested some weeks ago. I'm sure Bozak has its fans, but they borderlined sound reinforcement too much for my taste both in speakers and their equipment apparently. If the wanted to be taken seriously for home audio and didn't want to make their own stuff, should've had a company that makes home audio gear only produce their gear. It can be built up as nice or cheap as they wanted. Similar to Altec, who I know have their fans - but their stuff was usually at home in a concert hall. Some people might be impressed with this, I'm turned off by it. What's good in a giant auditorium doesn't seem like a good match for my small house, despite what other people think. I passed on the ARC stuff too, too expensive and not really worth it to me.

Still, I don't see in any way what's "high end" about that preamp. The internals of this remind me of a Marantz 3250 I used to own (It had stuff vertically like that as well, but the mainboard was on top so you couldn't easily see the individual modules).

This is what a high end preamp looks like to me

But, if you guys say so... It's funny that everyone talks about how great the internals are, as admitting the fact that it is pretty hideous on the outside. Sliders belong on band gear and mixers, not on home audio gear. If I was going to take my chances on some vintage gear, I'd certainly take McIntosh, Accuphase, or Luxman over this Bozak stuff any day.

Also bk mentioned Bose amps - I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. A vintage amp with that kind of power output and no protection circuits. Thanks, I'd rather not cook my speakers or pay hundreds to have it shipped for restoration work. It's the same reason I'll never buy an Adcom amp again. For the record, I do prefer modern gear over vintage since many vintage pieces have had their value inflated beyond what they're actually worth because of nostalgia. I want to pay for quality, not someone's opportunity to own the old amp they never could as a kid (I won't use any vintage receivers for this reason - not paying the price for the compromise of performance compared to separates).

I had a pretty high end vintage amp and I sold it off, didn't want to deal with the restoration fees and I'm certain it's a better amp than the Bozak stuff. Modern is just better IMO.

vs.

No contest there.

 

[bktheking]

Your really not being fair with your comparisons- m-25's s are 10 years newer and are more technologically advanced- if you gave me the choice between the bozak or the m-25 i'd take the pioneer all day every day. You can add protection to a bose- it's all good, i'll redo the bozak and give you my honest opinion of it- if it's a piece of garbage i'll donate it to auctions for AK.

 

[Brian]

As I said, it is all personal choice and only yours is what matters to you. The construction of the Bozak preamp is very good. The vertical board structure with the cabling harness system allowed for easy repair. Many units are well made but we're never made with any thought of repairing; likewise the power amp. I do not remember if you mentioned that your speakers, music preference or the room acoustics. These all play into the experience and what you may be hearing is poor synergy. While I have experience with them in systems where they sounded very good, I never included them in my personal system as they did not mate well with my speakers that were the anchor point in my system for decades. I did especially find they were good with Concert Grands in big-amp configuration but that system was in a room the size of a basketball court. In a small room, a well designed system may not need more than a couple of watts so, you may be looking and going in the wrong direction, a common error with many as they equipment roll and hunt. For instance I ran a 50 watt amp for my main amp for decades with 75 watts as an alternative. I did eventually go up to 105 on my main amp as new speakers took juice to open up. It's alternative was a 200 watt amp. More recently, I am using a 20 watt amp on my main speakers in the same room, just different speakers while my average listening levels have not changed. Most will, tell you it is the 1st watt that matters most and there is an actual reason why it is so.

I am not a Bose lover but must admit never heard of it or the McIntosh MC250/2505/2100/2105 knocking off speakers because it did not have a protection circuit. I admit, I only have been around audio since the 50s but I have never fried a set of speakers in my life. But then, I tend to mate components before slapping things together that do not make some sense and am respectful of a pieces limitations.

As for the M-25, not sure of the price but I suspect it with a decent pre might be out of your budget.

I do agree with you as I also am not a lover of sliders, they look ugly. But theybhave their place in home audio such as equalizer as they tend to be more logical to work with than a rotary control. But they function the same as a rotary control and do lend themselves to post point to point wiring better. OTOH, they're also open and hence more prone to dirt pickup. I guess it is again personal; I personally see no reason for a home audio system to have meters in preamps and power amps as they serve no real useful purpose but add complexity and cost.

Good luck with your hunt and I hope the synergy will be with you or your quest will be expensive, frustrating and you will lose your way - the path to the joy of music listening. Remember that is the goal and not the equipment is only a path. As we know a path can be made up of many materials but, in the end they all do the same thing.

 

[Vistance]

The M-25 was from the late '70s, wasn't the Bozak a mid-'70s amplifier? At least in that regard I didn't think it was an unjust comparison. The Bozak was slightly cheaper, but not by a large amount. I did own the M-25 and the matching C-21 preamplifier. I didn't really audition it that much before selling it, as its value for what I paid for it was many times greater. I still have an A-27 which is from the same series, supposedly is an M-25 and C-21 melded into an integrated amplifier.

I'm well aware of the need (or lack of) high wattage. I've been very pleased with many lower wattage amps under 60 watts per channel, even with my 86 +/- dB efficient speakers. I'm not a rock and roller and I don't want to feel the house rattle, thus my speakers are played moderately loud at best. This was also why I felt the Bozak was more than I needed. I had an M-22 as well, but it needed repair - though it was pure 30 watts of Class A power. Sometimes I do wonder if I should've hung on to that one as pure Class A amplifiers seem to be held as something rather special. But no use thinking on the past.

 

[bktheking]

I was under the impression that the bozak was a late 60's early 70's design.

 

[motorstereo]

Bluebook says the 929 was made from 77-88. 150wpc and retailed for $1250; seems to me that you did quite well especially since you can fix it yourself:thmbsp:

 

[bktheking]

Not sure I believe that, the transistors used in the unit were the old metal can style- they disappeared from being used in production long before 1977.

There is a write up from someone on the internet who worked for Bozak:

Home Systems
In the mid-1970s, Bob Betts designed the face plates and chassis for a series of home entertainment stereo equipment. These were to be known as the “900-series” of electronics. The 919 preamp and 929
power amp were great successes, with “black out” esthetics typical of the day, a la Marantz, McIntosh, etc. Other 900-Series products were developed, to include an economy version of the preamp and
poweramp.

If you google bozak 929 advertisement there is a gent on ebay selling one with a date of 1966 and another one from 1975. I tend to believe that they were built late 60's early 70's vs late 70's into the 80's- this is based on internal pics of the amp and the components used. Either way- this is a long run for an amplifier- not some over night sensation that left a year later.

 

[motorstereo]

Well it wouldn't be the first time the blue book has been wrong. There was also a listing for a 929 integrated but that was also from the same time period.

 

[Thundermud]

Just caught the tail end of this thread, looks like it got off track a bit and wasted some people's time.

 

[bktheking]

I don't think it was a waste of time at all, it's nice to see different view points of who thinks what gear is considered "good" gear.

 

[frommerstop]

Say Vistance, since you didn't apparently decide to go for the 912 & 929 you first asked about, would you mind letting us know if they are still available? If so, could you post a link? I might be interested myself... I do regret parting with my 929, and I never had the matching preamp.

 

[Vistance]

Actually someone already asked me that, the seller never gave me a number or email. They replied to a circulating ad I run, so the email relay was the only contact method I had. Sorry guys, would pass it along if I could since I have no interest. I haven't seen them show up on CL so my presumption is the guy probably just put them back in his closet again

 

[bktheking]

Say Vistance, since you didn't apparently decide to go for the 912 & 929 you first asked about, would you mind letting us know if they are still available? If so, could you post a link? I might be interested myself... I do regret parting with my 929, and I never had the matching preamp.

Since you had one, is the backlight for the meters really a fluorescent lamp??

 

[frommerstop]

Since you had one, is the backlight for the meters really a fluorescent lamp??

Not that I recall, I assume they were just incandescent bulbs, they might have been xenon, but I've never heard of tiny fluorescent lights in electronics. I never had cause to check... definitely didn't flicker & gradually grow brighter like an old shop window sign!


...Wow, that's really cool, I just did a search, http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=315019 and it turns out they DID use a fluorescent tube light in there!! Mine must have had good ones, because they didn't seem to flicker, or change too much as they warmed up.
I do remember it was too bright, and if I had kept it longer I would have tried to turn them off, so I would have discovered that, but I wasn't as bothered by display lights then as I am nowadays.

 

[bktheking]

I'm wondering if someone added that, problem is there isn't any other pics online of the nude bozak. The seller of mine said that "one meter is out" , I take it that they are lamps as well. If you look in the pic that's one long tube for both meters.

 

[frommerstop]

I don't know, if that was added, it seems someone went through a lot of effort for an odd modification! It seems more likely your seller actually means one of the analog meters isn't responding.

That's not too uncommon on old gear, often the needle is just stuck from sitting a long time, or a poor connection somewhere. As long as both channels are playing, I wouldn't worry too much about one meter being unresponsive, they are usually easy to fix. Often, they will come back to life the first time you crank it up really loud, and once active, often they continue working fine after that.

 

[vinylisfinal]

i own the 919 and a pair of 929's. IMHO the 919 preamp is a giant killer. it has a better sound stage than my Mcintosh c 28, better than a phase linear 3000, better than my Mcintosh mx 112. looks are not everything, function and sound is.