Bozak 919 Pre/929 Amp

[bktheking]

I rarely break a watt, my wife yells at me. If I don't want to hear her yell I have 149 more to drown her yelling out .

 

[sheltie dave]

On my Integra receiver right now it's at -42 dB on B&2 DM602 S3 speakers. I can turn the amp down to -infinity but the last number it displays is -81.5 dB. It has a bar that goes across the display telling me how far up I've turned it up (13 bars is maxed out). -42dB is 4 bars. If I crank this up to the loudest I can recall listening to any song, that would be -20 dB which is 7 bars. What you sound like you're describing is playing at close to 0 dB, and I've never once had any amp that I could do that with.

No one has really given me any real proof that these high power amps are necessary or even appreciably better for someone who doesn't crank their music up, other than people feel better having more watts because it really doesn't hurt to have more power but it can hurt to not have enough. If people just have money to spend and feel like they need the power, that's fine - I just feel that being more frugal, it's not really necessary. I understand my listening habits though, and don't feel I ever approach the dynamic headroom capability of any of my amps. It's not like my Integra sounds strained at -20 dB, it's just so loud and I generally don't enjoy that level of volume. Does everyone else just love playing their stuff loud but me?

Other people realize there is a reason for this position of power, and an entire field of acoustical engineering, besides you. You are blind to anything, or unwilling to accept anything, that is outside the paradigm that bounds your listening room and your beliefs.

When you play program material that requires enormous amount of power, like orchestral, jazz, or live accoustical music, you can be cruising along at -35 dB and suddenly have the grand piano kick it and be clipping at +5 dB. f course, it will never happen at your place, because you evidently don't run uncompressed jazz and classical music, otherwise we wouldn't even have the need for this conversation.

If you start to use uncompressed, highly dynamic recorded music, you will begin to understand this new paradigm of needing gobs of good power. Until that Eureka! moment, you will blithely sail along, sedated by your Integra's pretty little bars.

Maybe you need to get calibrated by going to a few jazz and symphony concerts. You will quickly learn that live music will be in your face, with vicious dynamics, tympani that when struck will make the cat climb the drapes, horns that sear your brains, and conductors that don't play anything and sweat their asses off. This music is as far from background tinkling as you can get.

 

[tonyk]

Vistance- been enjoying my freshly rebuilt 929 all afternoon- has GOBS of power and sounds better than a lot of gear i've listened to and i'm not just saying that. Too bad you weren't close by for a test drive.

I just wanted to jump in here and say that amp looks great, nice job.:thmbsp:

 

[bktheking]

Thanks Tony- going down soon to listen to it some more- got it hooked up to the quartets

 

[Vistance]

Other people realize there is a reason for this position of power, and an entire field of acoustical engineering, besides you. You are blind to anything, or unwilling to accept anything, that is outside the paradigm that bounds your listening room and your beliefs.

When you play program material that requires enormous amount of power, like orchestral, jazz, or live accoustical music, you can be cruising along at -35 dB and suddenly have the grand piano kick it and be clipping at +5 dB. f course, it will never happen at your place, because you evidently don't run uncompressed jazz and classical music, otherwise we wouldn't even have the need for this conversation.

If you start to use uncompressed, highly dynamic recorded music, you will begin to understand this new paradigm of needing gobs of good power. Until that Eureka! moment, you will blithely sail along, sedated by your Integra's pretty little bars.

Maybe you need to get calibrated by going to a few jazz and symphony concerts. You will quickly learn that live music will be in your face, with vicious dynamics, tympani that when struck will make the cat climb the drapes, horns that sear your brains, and conductors that don't play anything and sweat their asses off. This music is as far from background tinkling as you can get.

Because other people have bought into some notion that has never been explained to me. I have some Flim & the BB's which is recorded in high quality but barring that, no I don't know what you mean by uncompressed music - other than some CDs have music that sounds too compressed. I have an Benny Goodman jazz record of a concert from the '30s and I can't bear to listen to it because it sounds like it's playing through an AM radio on my speakers. No dynamics, it's just awful.

You say I'm blind to this stuff, but again - no one has ever said more than basically "You need an amp with lots of headroom for dynamic passages". Ok, and tell me then how should I know that my amp is inadequate for those tasks? Shouldn't it suddenly clip, and I'll hear horrible sound? I need something more to go off of than "You need headroom because this is a thing that happens." I listen to jazz, once in awhile orchestra music or live acoustical stuff - but no, predominantly I listen to a lot of other stuff (Electronica, rock, alternative, vocals, etc). I have been to live concerts, I am well aware of how orchestras sound in person. I don't wish to reproduce the exact same volume experience in my room as that would be painful. Yes, it is loud and in your face - but I don't like loud, I value my hearing. I want the quality sound, but not the drive you out of the room volume levels.

I pointed out the stuff with the Integra merely to just say exactly how much it's turned up. I only ever look at the dB, I just happened to look at it for the purposes of this. I've just about had enough of this amplifier hype train and am about to just make a plunge for something that basically if it doesn't make a difference, then I'll know this is all a bunch of bunk for me and if it does make a difference, would be an amplifier I'd love to own. The amplifier in question is a Threshold 4000

I actually have a few alternatives in mind, which are cheaper - but I have always liked the looks of Threshold gear and know it is well regarded. The Nakamichi PA-7 (A Threshold design) and the McCormack DNA amps are my alternates. All this is within my price range, and I'm ready to find a definitive answer to this amplifier question. If what you're saying is right, any of these should clearly far surpass anything I have been using.

 

[sheltie dave]

Since you started a thread a while back that ALL solid state amps sound alike to you, what speakers are you running?

 

[Vistance]

Everything I've heard so far has sounded the same. But since all my stuff is low end or mid-fi I'd like to see if jumping to something that's more high end will make the difference. I'd try McIntosh but their gear just seems too expensive. I'm ok with around $1k for something used, but Mc stuff is like $1,600 starting for used and more often around $2k+. It's good looking stuff, I just don't want to spend that much without the "Aha!" moment having occurred yet.

B&W DM602 S3 speakers are what I use for now, but not sure where this potential amplifier would end up. I use the B&W's the most, thus they probably deserve it more than anything else. I have a pair of JSE Infinite Slope 1.8 speakers that would probably make better use of it, also considering an in-home audition of Focal Chorus 806v or Ascend Sierra 1 speakers (I'm in a small room, so big floorstanders like Vandersteens which I'd love to hear, I doubt would work in my room). These would replace some IMO decent sounding Infinity towers, but I don't use that system as much thus I'm not sure if it's worth using there as opposed to the system with the B&W's which I use daily (Kind of like buying a Corvette that I never drive vs. a Camaro I drive every day or something like that - better to just have the Corvette and make do without the other, or in this case make do with cheaper amplification in that system).

The only amp that I still think might rank as a fairly high end amp, at least compared to what else I own, is my Pioneer A27. The question to me, considering the A27 sells for around $1k - is my A27 worth that much because it's a hard to find Pioneer? Or is it because it's actually a very well built and good sounding amplifier? Or is it a mixture of those (Like if it weren't a rare amp, would be worth maybe $600 - if that makes sense what I'm saying). I own the A27 already, I think it needs some repairs though as the preamp section is a little wonky sometimes. I'd probably just use it as a power amp though for now, it lacks enough inputs to replace my AVR. It could replace the Integra, except I use surround on my PC so I do still want that and maybe just use the A27 to drive the main speakers.

EDIT: So I did some listening to Flim and the BB's, cranked up really high (-15 dB). This actually really isn't that insanely loud, and that's amazingly close to the limit of this amplifier. I couldn't listen to any of my electronica at this level, it seems to get pretty loud well before this point. Overall the sound is decent, but I dunno. It does kinda feel lacking in punch. Should I be turning my subwoofer off for this kind of thing? I mean I have a small room so I figure it as part of the equation, and I try to blend it in musically. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on the Threshold Dave, I saw while searching for some more info about what they're going for and other info that you have owned one. The McCormack DNA-0.5 is a cheaper option at $650, but I have always kind of just had a thing for Threshold for no real logical reason - and it's an impressive looking amplifier. My room is tiny, so it's probably overkill - but seeing how easily I'm almost at the limit of the Integra when I listen like this, the 200 watts starts to not seem so crazy...

I'm totally open to stuff that changes my outlook on audio, I don't want to be limited to cheap stuff - but on the other hand I don't want to just buy expensive gear in the hopes that some day I'll hear it.

 

[bktheking]

Just an interesting factoid on the 929 that I discovered by restoring my own. In actual fact there are 2 versions of this amp- an early model and late- I have the late. The driver boards are slightly different and the meter lighting it different. Mine uses 8 automotive bayonet lamps, the early model like Denny Dog has used a single FL tube the entire length of both meters and has the associated drive for that FL tube- kinda cool since there isn't much info on these beasts.

 

[frommerstop]

Just an interesting factoid on the 929 that I discovered by restoring my own. In actual fact there are 2 versions of this amp- an early model and late- I have the late. The driver boards are slightly different and the meter lighting it different. Mine uses 8 automotive bayonet lamps, the early model like Denny Dog has used a single FL tube the entire length of both meters and has the associated drive for that FL tube- kinda cool since there isn't much info on these beasts.

Very interesting, I guess I had a later version, that would explain why I didn't remember mine having florescent tubes! As I said before, I thought it was a very good amp - much better sounding than the Crown DC300s I had at the time. I'd love to get another, and see how it compares with more recent amps... I have a feeling it would hold it's own nicely.

 

[bktheking]

Would be nice to find the 919 to go with it.

 

[Vistance]

Hmm, FWIW this thread has convinced me to go for it on getting a Threshold and getting a hold of some decently high end SS gear. I missed out on getting a 4000 the other day, but I'm on the prowl now. My mind is set on the Bozak stuff though, it might not outright say pro audio on it but if it were truly such a sleeper more people would've used it I think. You can't get rid of your brand image, no matter what you try to do and attempting to do so is a poor idea. Budget car companies will always be seen as such, no matter how "nice" they make their cars or what they end up costing. Crown makes pro amps and they know it, for them to charade as a company that makes home audio amps would be a waste since they have a reputation for making pro gear anyway.

Anyways, I guess I would've forgot about all this and just stuck with what I had if you guys hadn't been bashing me over the head with this Bozak stuff, so in a roundabout way - thanks!

"Don't need no stinkin' meters!"

 

[Vistance]

Hey guys, wanted to revive this thread because I found the seller again and have decided to reconsider my original position on these. After I did an ABX test with a Peavey AMR amplifier vs. an amp the Peavey had no right to be compared to and couldn't tell them apart very easily, I understand the points made about "pro gear" and what stuff is and isn't pro. So my question is two-fold. How much are these worth (especially since that preamp seems to not show up a lot), and how arduous would the recap/service job be on these? They're rather old so I do imagine they'd need a recapping.

The only hesitation I have is just that there are other amps in this price range that I'm looking at that are much newer and well suited for me, but will admit after reconsideration this is still kind of neat and different. How much I actually need it is probably questionable. It won't go in my main system for sure, my other primary listening system seems negligible but possible (I have a pretty dang nice Pioneer integrated that it would have to top, I honestly doubt it - A27 if you wondered). I have a Threshold for my purely 2.1 music system so no chance of it replacing that, so the most likely place I can see myself putting it is the little bedroom system (Such a glorious excess...but hey, I had a Marantz preamp/power amp in there for a long time - only recently did I put in a nice Scott integrated I picked up for little cash).

What makes the preamp so special anyway? It's kind of confusing to look at since it has two knobs that I think select the inputs, but one goes to output? And then there's cue? And sliders that say "- Stereo +" in between them? It's all rather confusing looking to me, I understand what all normal preamps look like and do generally but this one is confusing. It legitimately makes me think of DJ stuff since that is the only place else I remember seeing cue and sliders like that, but since you say it isn't I'll go with it - still not sure what point that stuff has to a normal person though.

 

[bktheking]

The pre is more inline with professional mastering gear vs dj equipment- the designer who modeled this gear also had the help of CM labs to design it. The CM labs stuff was aimed at recording studios.

 

[poppachubby]

Well good luck getting it fixed. That Yahoo Bozak group is useless and I didn't see a service manual anywhere on the web, not even one you could pay money for. Personally I'll stick to companies that actually make equipment, not speaker companies that randomly decide to make a few pieces of gear, regret doing it, and then make none ever again. Most of what I've seen seems to show that if a speaker or equipment company makes a crossover product they don't make it anyway, so you're never getting a top notch product when they didn't design it themselves.

As a member of the Bozak group, I find this funny. The group is active and unless you declare a good reason for needing to join, more than simply... "looking to find the value of xxxx", they aren't interested in having you.

Also, as an owner of the 919 I find your hesitations and understanding of both the product and company even funnier. The 919 was based on one of the most incredible sounding pro mixers ever made - the CMA-10-2DL - which still commands huge money at sale. By design the 919 is a superior piece of gear which sounds better than many far younger pre amps. It was made to compete with Macintosh and other hifi giants of the day.

Friend, you lost out so huge its not even funny. I bought my 919 for $100. Members of the Bozak group were offering me $300 sight unseen, so you tell me is it valuable?? Bottom line is you just can't find a preamp of this quality for under $1000 nowadays.

All the paranoia and endless shuffling because of potential service issues is unfounded. You are wrong, most quality gear that has sat for 30 years will fire up without issue assuming its been stored properly, etc. The vintage game isn't for you... you gotta pounce on quality with cash in hand - hesitate you lose. Takes a certain instinct and eye which you are sorely lacking...

 

[Vistance]

This thread just won't die will it?

As a member of the Bozak group, I find this funny. The group is active and unless you declare a good reason for needing to join, more than simply... "looking to find the value of xxxx", they aren't interested in having you.

Also, as an owner of the 919 I find your hesitations and understanding of both the product and company even funnier. The 919 was based on one of the most incredible sounding pro mixers ever made - the CMA-10-2DL - which still commands huge money at sale. By design the 919 is a superior piece of gear which sounds better than many far younger pre amps. It was made to compete with Macintosh and other hifi giants of the day.

Friend, you lost out so huge its not even funny. I bought my 919 for $100. Members of the Bozak group were offering me $300 sight unseen, so you tell me is it valuable?? Bottom line is you just can't find a preamp of this quality for under $1000 nowadays.

All the paranoia and endless shuffling because of potential service issues is unfounded. You are wrong, most quality gear that has sat for 30 years will fire up without issue assuming its been stored properly, etc. The vintage game isn't for you... you gotta pounce on quality with cash in hand - hesitate you lose. Takes a certain instinct and eye which you are sorely lacking...

My request to join the Bozak group was something along the lines of wanting to find out about service issues for the 929 and 919. If that's forbidden, they can shove their group where the sun doesn't shine. What am I supposed to put for a reason, some flowery nonsense about "Loving the Bozak brand"? I don't like Bozak speakers and really only cared about the info for the equipment. You can quote whatever you want about the Bozak group and their prices since it's apparently limited to people with some obsession over the brand. I'm sure they'll let in a whole dozen members this year, since Bozak is such a booming and popular brand even still these days...

Pretty sure a Threshold FET preamp would trounce the 919 and is a lot better looking to boot. I think you've had a bit too much Bozak kool-aid to be praising it so heavily over such a large number of preamps you can't possibly have heard or even know about in the sub-$1k range. You have people paying "a lot" (as if $300 is even a lot for a quality two channel preamp) because they want a matched set, both Bozak branded. It's less indicative of quality and more of "hard to find". People pay lots of money for stuff that isn't nearly as good as some things that are readily available. It doesn't magically make it better because of that.

Service issues with vintage gear is to be expected. I'm guessing you either don't have much experience with vintage gear, or are just generalizing because most vintage gear needs to be serviced. Now, will it work? Yes. But as is said every time, caps dry out, and specs deviate from the factory setting. With gear that's starting to go on 40 some-odd years old, yes it needs service. I tested the 929 and 919, and guess what? 929 is deader than a doornail. But what do I know about vintage gear needing service?

I got tired of this game of trying to find cheap stereo gear that is worth the trouble, so I just ponied up some time ago for a Threshold Stasis amplifier. The Threshold is a vintage amp, but I made sure to buy one that was recently serviced and works with no issue. I just bought an Aragon 4004 Mk II for another system. For now my Integra processor is sufficient, but if I decide to pursue dedicated two channel, I'll likely track down a Threshold FET9 or FET10 preamp. The simple matter is, I've heard the 919 hooked up to my Threshold. Didn't sound any better than an NAD preamp I compared it to (1600 Monitor series preamp, well respected in its price range of sub $300). Nice thing was the NAD didn't have nasty noisy sliders (that deoxit did not resolve) and wasn't full of unnecessary sliders and cue knobs and other professional nonsense I'll never need. Remote was a handy feature too.

Honestly, the audio world seems all about the perceived notion of value. For some it's buying something for $100 that they think out does stuff that costs $1,000. For others it's buying something for $1,000 that they think out does stuff that costs $5,000. Ad infinitum until you have those $500,000 amplifiers. The people buying those don't really care about value, they're more about making the profound statement that they have a reasonably acceptable "best amplifier made", though design plays a large role at those prices. But should the guys who spend $1,000 on their stuff care about what the people who spent $100 have, that it compares? I'd say no, because the satisfaction is in being happy with what you own and not about what you wish you owned. I doubt there are many examples of people going from more expensive gear to cheaper gear because it sounds better, it's usually financially driven - and that's fine. Maybe the perceived improvement wasn't worth the often exponential cost increase? Hard to say for some. Why are you so concerned about how I perceive the 919? Clearly you enjoy it so much, so what's a dissenting opinion matter? After hearing the 919, it's nothing special. Combine it with the brand and the looks, and for me it's a stinker.

 

[Brian]

What does gobs of power sound like? Shouldn't an amp just work? I guess I don't get these terms people use a lot, since my "awful" AVRs never sound like they have no power despite having "weak" amplifier sections. Shouldn't all SS amps sound basically the same as long as the speakers being used don't demand more power than the amp can provide? Like a speaker with 1 ohm peaks or something, requiring a really robust amp but barring that, sounding no different?

I'm content with low wattage, I've never once had any amplifier that I've ever thought "wow this thing is weak". Even my lowly Marantz 2215b and 2220b with 15 and 20 watts per channel respectively played loudly without a problem. At this point about the only thing that seems like it might produce differing sounds to me would be tube equipment, but even at that who is to say if that's desirable considering on some level it's distortion. I still think it's the speakers job to actually produce the quality sound, the amp just needs enough power to drive a speaker (And most speakers don't need much power, so high wattage is extremely overrated).

Hey, finally something I can agree with. No, you don't not need a lot of power with the right speakers, in the right room and, with the right music. Most of my life I ram 50 watts and never can close to clipping. Only with 1 set of speakers did I ever feel the need for more power and an extra 3db did it.

In fact, in some cases because of the characteristics of ss design a low powered amp will do better provided it is not compressing or clipping. I just hooked up a set of efficient speakers and went through my inventory. All bit one of my highest powered amps sounded terrible while the amp providing the least power and the next higher power amp sounded best. Those is the opposite of a number of my other speakers.

As for amps sounding the same, I hate to tell you amps do not have any sound
What you hear is the interaction of the above and the speaker. I have amps that on one set of speakers provide the same experience. Hook these same amps to another and the result is the sounds are dramatically different. Some, including myself describe it as synergy. Objective measurements can not account for it. In you experiences you may have been lucky or there was a, limiting factor in the chain masking the differences.

Your preference for pieces specifically designed for home audio is personal. I have experienced mixed results with amps designed from both venues. The Crown D40 and D60s designed as monitoring amps for the tape decks are built for extreme environments but are very good with a wide range of speakers and 2 of only a few ss amps that truly did well with my KLH Nines that tended to fry almost every ss amp. I felt the D150 was at best so-so and would not give the DC300 shelf space if given to me, though if I were into a subwoofer, it might work.

Your comments about reliability have me confused. Most you named have decent reputations generally. As reliability seems a major issue, I am further complexes by your biased towards amps designed for both markets or their designs and build cross over as industrial (pro, sounds reinforcement, studio and,.shaker table) amps as design requirement must generally be more resistant to failure and be long lived and have easy repair capability. I would take. Crown D60 any day over a Dynaco ST 80, any day based on reliability, repairability and past experience as how each performs with a variety of speakers I have auditioned each with.

I also get confused with the relationship between your statements, photos, stated desires and budget. Totally confusing, seemingly unrealistic and contrary to your statement about low watt amps. I understand your preference as the visual aspects of design, a very personal thing and one may love how something performs but be totally turned off by the visual presentation. I for instance as a general statement find meters on amps both unappealing, most useless as to information of significant value and just adding complexities to the circuit and a way to grab money. I suspect there may be one other members at most who would agree with my position.

You confound me again with your concerns with the circuit design and build of vintage amps. Yet, you seem to dislike new amps as much or more. You might consider that you should research the period of equipment that provides the balance you seem to need. But, few periods of design are without potential challenges. For instance in the early days of the IC, as in the earliest days of the transistor, the results were variable at best. For instance, that period gave iz some of the worst sounding preamps of any period. Then there were those STK output packages. A mixed bag and while fairly new as audio goes, are next to impossible today to find replacements. No period is perfect with maybe the best being earlier, the latest tube era. A tube power amp from that period can be pretty easily rebuilt as there are relatively few parts and other than some transformers and the pecs, if used, we're common off the shelf. Premaps, while more complex are also pretty easy to totally rebuild. You may want to look at something other than new or vintage.

 

[Vistance]

I have no distaste for newer amps, I prefer them. I suppose by newer I'm kind of referring to a range of '90s amplifiers. The newest amplifiers do seem strange to me, they've all become so small and lightweight and yet maintain their prices. Truthfully probably just as good as the '90s stuff I'm more fond of, but I guess old habits die hard and I just find myself suspicious of the light stuff. The new stuff that's massive is very costly, doesn't even seem to matter the brand. But this is getting back to the thing about using older gear instead of new, the cost. No denying that.

My comments on reliability of some brands that others love so dearly are my own experience. I've only had one Sansui come through that had no issues, a 5050 receiver. Everything else has had some issues, some minor and some major. By minor issues I mean it requires disassembly, troubleshooting, and replacement of some part typically. Off hand I can recall a Sansui 771 that the input selector knob went janky on me and now doesn't even work (maybe wiring? It's a nightmare of wires on that selector knob), then there's a B-2101 which works great overall but sometimes the protect circuit doesn't click and you must smack the face of the amplifier and then it activates and works correctly (I have no idea what is causing this, I'd say cold solder but I see none), and there was a 9090 that was just plain ol' dead - no preamp section, no amp section, no lights, nada - all that came up was the power LED and the relay clicked and that was it. Maybe I just had a series of bad luck with Sansui, but it doesn't inspire confidence in me. I've bought a lot of other vintage brands and never had any issues beyond dirty pots or things so minor they were only quirks.

Overall I like vintage gear, but I don't like the sometimes excessive preference people place over it vs. newer stuff (A la "They don't make 'em like they use to!"). I was just looking at a multichannel amplifier to finish my surround setup since 3-channel amps are hard to find and found an ATI amplifier that was absolutely monstrous in build quality. Multiple toroidal power supplies, individual channel amp modules, tons of fuses. I've vaguely known of ATI but they're never talked about much, seems a shame an amp like this gets no press from anyone - but I guess they didn't sell a lot.

People always talk about the sleeper vintage amps people ignore, but I think there are more sleeper newer amps that we just don't know about. Hell, I had no idea about ATI until I stumbled across a listing for one that went cheaply.

I think too much proprietary technology is what makes an amp a bit finicky and unreliable. Not so much inherently unreliable by design, but insomuch that if it breaks you're SOL without someone who knows how to repair that proprietary stuff. This is why I'm kind of nervous about Carver gear, I like the idea of how it performs and it seems like interestingly different stuff. But he uses a lot of proprietary stuff in their design that makes me a bit concerned should something go wrong. The non-traditional design can also be more problematic than just a normal power amp. Shameless plug for the ATI, but I really like how they have their fuses setup for each channel and fault protector indicators.

Don't read too much into my picture posting, I just feel like it helps illustrate things better than without them. Can never have enough equipment ogling!

 

[poppachubby]

My request to join the Bozak group was something along the lines of wanting to find out about service issues for the 929 and 919. If that's forbidden, they can shove their group where the sun doesn't shine. What am I supposed to put for a reason, some flowery nonsense about "Loving the Bozak brand"? I don't like Bozak speakers and really only cared about the info for the equipment. You can quote whatever you want about the Bozak group and their prices since it's apparently limited to people with some obsession over the brand. I'm sure they'll let in a whole dozen members this year, since Bozak is such a booming and popular brand even still these days...

You reply with alot of presumptions which are completely unfounded. My post on the otherhand was based on things which came out of your mouth. I am deep enough into this hobby to not feel the need to reply. However one thing..

Your disrespect for the Bozak brand and Rudy Bozak's contribution to hifi is appalling. No, the Yahoo group don't want to let people in who simply wish to find out one tidbit of info and then never return or interact. The denial of your request is a simple way of saying, why do you need the group for that? The schematics regularily appear online.

Enjoy your gear.

 

[Vistance]

They really don't. I searched and found nothing. The schematic for the CM Labs amp was the best thing, and it's not directly the same amp. It may actually be, but I don't have anything that would make me believe it.

You were the one who revived this thread just to put me down for not seeing the one true light that is how great that Bozak preamp is. I'm not pushing my ideas on anyone, if you love it go buy a dozen of them. For me, it was nothing special and visually it's unappealing to me. Bozak is nothing that special that their info needs to be held like some trade secret. All it means is most people won't buy their speakers or gear (When people can't find info about something, they're hesitant to spend much on it if any). Great if you guys want to horde all the Bozak stuff to yourself.

You'd probably disapprove of my other dislikes as well, but I'm in general not too thrilled with American speakers. That includes Bozak, Klipsch, Polk Audio, and JBL to name a few big ones. I am fond of Infinity though, I've heard several pairs I quite enjoyed. No offense, but Bozak designs always look outdated and I'd rather my speakers weren't huge coffins or dressers - which is the typical size of a Bozak speaker. Bozak didn't contribute individually any more than the other big guys back in the day. In fact, James Lansing and Sidney Harman both made quite a large impact as I recall and that was well before Bozak came around.

Again, I guess the fact the 929 was dead and the 919 had a few dirty pots that refused to be cleaned with deoxit just highlights how excellent they are for build quality. Especially considering both were stored inside an air conditioned home and never even left in a shed or something else. Hell, I've got equipment that was left in a shed that works great - even with rust and all. So pray tell, why would the Bozak stuff have issues where other vintage gear of similar age generally doesn't - even in rougher shape?

 

[poppachubby]

You were the one who revived this thread just to put me down for not seeing the one true light that is how great that Bozak preamp is. I'm not pushing my ideas on anyone, if you love it go buy a dozen of them. For me, it was nothing special and visually it's unappealing to me. Bozak is nothing that special that their info needs to be held like some trade secret. All it means is most people won't buy their speakers or gear (When people can't find info about something, they're hesitant to spend much on it if any). Great if you guys want to horde all the Bozak stuff to yourself.

Perhaps you think that once a thread has lost its interest and gone dorment, it's no longer relevant. Quite the opposite. Its been commited to the infinite sphere of the web and is going to come up when searched by Google. Therefore, I didn't revive your thread to put you down, but rather to offer a point of view which I feel is necessary - to fully satisfy anybody who may wish to know.

Bozak didn't contribute individually any more than the other big guys back in the day.

You seem to do better when you speak on things which concern your opinion - such as not liking how a speaker looks.

Again, I guess the fact the 929 was dead and the 919 had a few dirty pots that refused to be cleaned with deoxit just highlights how excellent they are for build quality. Especially considering both were stored inside an air conditioned home and never even left in a shed or something else. Hell, I've got equipment that was left in a shed that works great - even with rust and all. So pray tell, why would the Bozak stuff have issues where other vintage gear of similar age generally doesn't - even in rougher shape?

I can respect the fact that you don't like how things look or sound - but your inuendos and implications about Bozak as a brand are really making you sound foolish.

The fact is, who knows why it didn't fire up, but it's certainly not a reflection of Bozak. As for how it sounds - no, it's not the end all of solid state pre-amps. However, it's a sleeper in terms of quality vs price and compares favourably with both units it was intended to compete with, and modern units currently on the market.

I prefer not to ramble on as it generally looks desperate but lets just say that I have heard my fair share of back ends. Modern equipment I have listened to in home and extensively would include Unison Research, Moon, Balanced Audio Technology, Arcam, NAD, Marantz, Teac, Rega, PS Audio, Peachtree, Harman/Kardon, & Jolida. That said I have been living with the same system for well over 2 years now. The 919 is a unit which I rotate in and out of my analog-only system. It serves when a completely refurb'd and modded EICO (Lipschitz curve) is resting.

For those who are trying to get bang for their buck, the 919 is a wonderful option. Indeed the aesthetics are all business (I would have preferred they use the CMA 10-2DL), but the sound is wonderful particularily the phono circuit. The inner workings and design are even more fantastic, having used removable boards for each major stage. Its a modders wet dream and I have used one phono stage for an MM Lispschitz curve, and the other for an MC input. The S/N performs well beyond its specs and is noticably effective.

The many options available are infact quite awesome if you wish to rip vinyl on a computer, feed a second amp in a neighbouring room or hook up a subwoofer. Those are just a couple options. For headphone buffs the amp is very powerful and retains great performance. For some, the options will have no use but for others they are unique and useful.

I would suggest this if you are trying to find a vintage solid-state option for the $1000 modern benchmark. It defeats the typical options of say the Kenwood Basic C1. The value is of course all relative but it retailed for approx. $1000USD new... a model which is in decent shape with all knobs and sliders intact should go for anywhere between $250 and $350.

My system including the 919...

Golden Tube SE40
Bozak 919
Ariston RD-11s / Moth MKii / Nagaoka MP500
Planet 10 Frugal Horns MKIII / suprAbaffle / Fostex FE126eN / rear deflection
HSU Research VTF

WBT 0101 / 2016
Solid Core DIY
Tung Sol 6L6GC
Sylvania "chrome-dome" 6SN7 GTB