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Buzzy MC2300 In Bi-Amp Set-Up

had one wife and (3) fye-ances ... all have overwhelmingly approved of my ridiculousness ...
Ah, you’re a lucky man. In fairness to my wife, she’s not opposed to having a nice system in the house, she just didn’t buy into the PA scale set-up that now lives in the garage. Once that relocated, I had a clean slate (and justification) to start over inside. It was win-win for me. The only caveat was that the speakers had to be reasonably sized and visually presentable.
 
The fans, it's not a complicated circuit - my MC2300 is a later version with the heat-activated fans, occasionally I'll hear them kick on. But they are pretty quiet in mine anyway.

FWIW here's my thread chasing the buzz in my MC2105: https://audiokarma.org/forums/threads/faint-c32-background-static.1032199/
I just now read your thread and found your process to find a “fix” interesting. As in my situation, I guess the solution here is to adjust (the input bias) and accept that noise happens. Sounds like good general advice for life.

Thank you for your guidance.
 
Noise is a tough one to quantify some times, but it’s usually pretty easy to find the source.

A noisy amplifier typically punishes one with very sensitive speakers, and might not even be audible on inefficient speakers. The 2300 should be pretty quiet regardless.
 
I just now read your thread and found your process to find a “fix” interesting. As in my situation, I guess the solution here is to adjust (the input bias) and accept that noise happens. Sounds like good general advice for life.

Thank you for your guidance.

My process to *not* find a fix!

"Noise happens" ... would be a good T-shirt
 
Noise is a tough one to quantify some times, but it’s usually pretty easy to find the source.

A noisy amplifier typically punishes one with very sensitive speakers, and might not even be audible on inefficient speakers. The 2300 should be pretty quiet regardless.
In this case, the 2300 is used just to power JBL B380 passive subs. So, no tweeters/mids come into play—just 2235H 15” woofers. When the line in cables are disconnected, there is no noise. I’ve swapped cables, crossover, and outputs from preamp (there are 3 total) and still the noise persisted until I followed Johnny_Laws suggestion to dial back the input bias at the amp. It’s seemingly more a work-around than a solution with an explanation, but I have to admit it’s working.
 
Hmm. That possibility puts me a bit in weeds from a conceptual standpoint, but as a practical matter I can easily use a plug adaptor to give it a try. All I have to do is find a damn adaptor around here. I know I have one…somewhere.

I appreciate you offering a different suggestion and I’ll let you know how it goes. Who knows, this may be beneficial for Mr Law to find out as well.
 
FWIW, with this multi device configuration, are all units plugged into one serving power outlet, via the mounted 8 socket power strip in the picture ?
I can see a power strip in the first picture, but it looks like it has what looks like a few outlets remained unused considering all the audio equipment setup in the garage system`s picture.
To help avoid noisy/hum causing ground loops, it is best to try power all the equipment through 1 single outlet if possible, via a quality rated power distribution strip, or box that way all the ground pins of any of their power cords at at or nearly at the same ground conductivity point, thus reducing or preventing noisy circulatory ground currents between the interconnected audio equipment.

I learned about this problem setting up and running non-humming powerful multi amp/bi-amplified PA systems in local nightclubs for rock bands in the seventies.

And later in my own home`s distributed to 5 room stereos, all fed A/V signals from my living room`s master A/V signals source rack.

Talk about ground loop created noise issues caused by the different power/signal grounds paths lengths between the various rooms power grounds to each other, and to the electrical panel`s ultimate single point reference ground connection !

Good luck to the OP with tracking down the lowest hum/noise/safest selected ground lift adaptor power cord method ! (hint: try to lift the C220`s power cord`s ground first to see any positive hum reduction)
 
The other option, since you’re using unbalanced (RCA) connections is to snip the shield on one end of each RCA cable, the shield will still be grounded but only at one end. This MIGHT “cure” the symptom by eliminating the ground-loop via the interconnect shield.
 
FWIW, with this multi device configuration, are all units plugged into one serving power outlet, via the mounted 8 socket power strip in the picture ?
I can see a power strip in the first picture, but it looks like it has what looks like a few outlets remained unused considering all the audio equipment setup in the garage system`s picture.
To help avoid noisy/hum causing ground loops, it is best to try power all the equipment through 1 single outlet if possible, via a quality rated power distribution strip, or box that way all the ground pins of any of their power cords at at or nearly at the same ground conductivity point, thus reducing or preventing noisy circulatory ground currents between the interconnected audio equipment.

I learned about this problem setting up and running non-humming powerful multi amp/bi-amplified PA systems in local nightclubs for rock bands in the seventies.

And later in my own home`s distributed to 5 room stereos, all fed A/V signals from my living room`s master A/V signals source rack.

Talk about ground loop created noise issues caused by the different power/signal grounds paths lengths between the various rooms power grounds to each other, and to the electrical panel`s ultimate single point reference ground connection !

Good luck to the OP with tracking down the lowest hum/noise/safest selected ground lift adaptor power cord method ! (hint: try to lift the C220`s power cord`s ground first to see any positive hum reduction)
Hey there, Bill. Thank you for taking the time to provide such detailed information. It sounds as though you’ve spent some saddle time in this rodeo yourself.

Your eagle-eye apparently spotted the secondary plugstrip at the taller rack—impressive catch! That plugstrip (I’ll call it PS-2) is daisy-chained from the primary plugstrip (PS-1), which itself is located at the bottom of the short rack that holds the two MC60s. So, the two plugstrips are connected to the same circuit and the same wall receptacle, but PS-2 is downstream from PS-1. Presently there is no power conditioner at the head end of this system.

Summary of Loads, per plugstrip:

PS-1
(1) MC2300
(2) MC60s
(1) Subfeed to PS-2

PS-2
(1) C220
(1) streamer
(1) DAC
(1) or (2) electronic crossover(s), depending upon which is in use.
(1) Marantz CD6007 CD player.

The plugstrips are both properly grounded, with third prongs (u-grounds) intact. The circuit itself is also properly grounded. The power cord to the MC2300 is not factory issue, but it is a 14-3 cable with the u-ground intact. The cord to the C220 is factory issue, 3-wire, grounded. Everything else has a polarized (fat blade & narrow blade) 2-prong cord EXCEPT the MC60s which have archaic 2-wire, non-polarized plug ends. However, there is no buzz or hum coming through those two amps (which power the “top end”).

It was also suggested to me by Mr “SaturationPt” that I try isolating the ground on the MC2300 to see if the noise changes/goes away. Two things are keeping me from making progress in this quest:

1) My son is staying with me while he remodels his home and he has commandeered my garage, turning it into both his 40 hr/week office and a 24-7 kennel for his two big dogs and one surly cat. I now need to book time in my own garage, the space into which my wife already banished both me and my “wall of sound wannabe system” (as she calls it)! I’m thinking of adopting Rodney Dangerfield as AK name now.

2) This is perhaps the real reason I’m not out in the garage right now. I’m also trying out some new gear for the primary system in the house. And since I can now play martyr, due to how I’ve been treated in regard the garage and the system that now lives out there, I have lots of latitude to mix and match, do sound countless checks, move interfering furniture around—you know, stuff like that. It’s good fun and I’m loving it!!

But all this will come to end soon enough. Hopefully I’ll achieve whatever it is that I hope to achieve by buying/trying new equipment for the primary system before I’m back begging for studio time in my own damn garage again. Anyway, I’ll get back troubleshooting the possible ground loop problem in due course.

Thanks again for your ideas. And, hey, thanks for listening.

Best to you and I’ll be back in touch.

Michael
 
Do you have a hum with the C220 plugged into the MC2300, with no inputs at all on the C220 (completely stripped of any connection other than the MC2300 and power)?
 
It’s seemingly more a work-around than a solution with an explanation, but I have to admit it’s working.
I suggest it's a fairly straightforward answer/reason.An amplifier amplifies everything coming in. Turning down the level controls reduces the net gain of the amp, hence what comes in is amplified less.

As well, gain staging (somewhat of a high level categorization of what you've done) is widely known in, say, pro audio, but not so much in home audio. Gain staging isn't a workaround, more like a best practice.
 
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I suggest it's a fairly straightforward answer/reason.An amplifier amplifies everything coming in. Turning down the level controls reduces the net gain of the amp, hence what comes in is amplified less.

As well, gain staging (somewhat of a high level categorization of what you've done) is widely known in, say, pro audio, but not so much in home audio. Gain staging isn't a workaround, more like a best practice.
Interesting—as I live and learn. I appreciate this perspective. For some reason I expected/hoped that absent any equipment defects or avoidable sources of interference, that the noise level would be nil. I did use a different amp for the woofers awhile back (I think it was either a Hafler 9505 or a Mitsubishi DA-A15DC, actually may have tried both) and I don’t recall a noise issue. I suppose we’re talking apples and oranges though in terms gain characteristics amongst those amps. Thanks for your comments.
 
Do you have a hum with the C220 plugged into the MC2300, with no inputs at all on the C220 (completely stripped of any connection other than the MC2300 and power)?
I’ve been working around my property today and not able to tinker with the system any. I believe there’s an opening tomorrow for me to get back in the garage. I’ll let you know how it goes. Thank you.
 
The other option, since you’re using unbalanced (RCA) connections is to snip the shield on one end of each RCA cable, the shield will still be grounded but only at one end. This MIGHT “cure” the symptom by eliminating the ground-loop via the interconnect shield.
This might be a later experiment.
 
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