Can a CD Player from '90's compete with modern?
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jeremyjustic
Analog
yep , it all depends on the player. I have a McIntosh mcd7000 built circa 1985 and it sounds great, It beat out several different CDP's from the 1990's and 2000's. Good players sound good, bad players sound bad.
Too many variables to generalize, but its possible to get one of today's great DACs, for less, than it was to get one of yesterday's great DACs. And today's best DACs, in my opinion, are unmatched. Something like the NAD M51 or Mytek 192.
But if you're comparing a used TOTL DAC, something like what is in the old Denon DVD-5000 I have, to one of today's cheapest DACs, you're very likely better off to stay with the older DAC. The analog output stage, power supply, etc, is often better and it swamps the other advancements (my opinion).
In general (again, hard to generalize), I think digital has come far enough to not even consider older players/DACs. Go in for something decent today and don't look back. Digital has gotten REALLY good.
But if you're comparing a used TOTL DAC, something like what is in the old Denon DVD-5000 I have, to one of today's cheapest DACs, you're very likely better off to stay with the older DAC. The analog output stage, power supply, etc, is often better and it swamps the other advancements (my opinion).
In general (again, hard to generalize), I think digital has come far enough to not even consider older players/DACs. Go in for something decent today and don't look back. Digital has gotten REALLY good.
Robinhawaii
Super Member
My main system, I use an Audio Research CD2, which to me, sounds much better than my "I" anything plugged into the same system. It is improved when I feed the digital out of an Airport Express first through my Enlightened Audio Design, 7000 Mark III... So in other words, no, I cannot agree that the modern day cheap DAC sounds better to me, rather it sounds like it is missing detail and fullness. (MHO)
Take care,
Rob
frommerstop
Super Member
I agree with the majority here, I think you can find some exceptional older players that are comparable to all but the very best of the current stuff. I also think it's harder to find a really poor sounding player now than it used to be. Back in the eighties, there were only a very few "good" sounding players, and most were downright hard to listen to. By the early nineties, I think the number of good to excellent players had grown to a majority, and now I'm not sure you can buy a really "bad" sounding player... let alone a DAC.
I still have an old Revox B225 that sounds pretty good, but I have to admit, it's not nearly as highly detailed as any of the newer stuff - heck, it's no where near my Rega Planet (from the early nineties). In the "early days" of digital, it was something for a player to just not sound too horrible. Digital has sure come a long way!
I still have an old Revox B225 that sounds pretty good, but I have to admit, it's not nearly as highly detailed as any of the newer stuff - heck, it's no where near my Rega Planet (from the early nineties). In the "early days" of digital, it was something for a player to just not sound too horrible. Digital has sure come a long way!
RedFuneral
Active Member
I've actually tested this out for myself. As far as sound quality goes I found the DAC in my late 80s mid-level Toshiba player to beat(destroy) the modern day Schiit Bifrost as well as the DAC in a Burson 160DS and the ASUS Essence STX soundcard.
It depends what you're going for though. Older DACs like the one in that CD player have a reputation for being sterile and glassy, and they are. The transparency, bass, and soundstage they can offer is quite astounding though. I'd say my current DAC, an Ultra-Fi is just a tad behind in those fronts still, but it doesn't have any of the disadvantages and is quite far ahead in every other category. I'd probably still be using the CD player but it was brutally unforgiving of poor mastering and recording. Someone with a more 'audiophile' taste in music likely wouldn't have a problem.
I'm not sure quite how valid my comparison is though, it's a bit apples to oranges(CDs to a computer source). Computers come with the advantage that they don't need to read the disc in realtime, but introduce a lot of noise and jitter themselves. A lot of the modern higher end DACs are designed around being used with a PC.
I use a piece of software called Jplay to play my music, which is claimed to allow your computer to perform on the level of the 'TOTL CD transports', while I have no way to verify that claim I can tell you that it sounds much better than other players such as Jriver and Foobar. We've still got a ways to go with digital, and I think that if you're on a smaller budget a CD player is still the way to go.(though it's gotten real close this past year)
You can also add in the third option that has neither the disadvantage of reading a disc realtime nor being in a 'noisy' environment. That would be the portable players like ipods and sansas. Unfortunately they tend to perform poorly as they have cheap DACs and don't really have enough power behind them to provide good dynamics or bass. I think a portable player designed around working with an external DAC would make for an interesting product. Then again, they can't fit much uncompressed music on them either. I expect in 5-10 years when 1tb of SSD storage is the norm this will be the way the industry goes.
It depends what you're going for though. Older DACs like the one in that CD player have a reputation for being sterile and glassy, and they are. The transparency, bass, and soundstage they can offer is quite astounding though. I'd say my current DAC, an Ultra-Fi is just a tad behind in those fronts still, but it doesn't have any of the disadvantages and is quite far ahead in every other category. I'd probably still be using the CD player but it was brutally unforgiving of poor mastering and recording. Someone with a more 'audiophile' taste in music likely wouldn't have a problem.
I'm not sure quite how valid my comparison is though, it's a bit apples to oranges(CDs to a computer source). Computers come with the advantage that they don't need to read the disc in realtime, but introduce a lot of noise and jitter themselves. A lot of the modern higher end DACs are designed around being used with a PC.
I use a piece of software called Jplay to play my music, which is claimed to allow your computer to perform on the level of the 'TOTL CD transports', while I have no way to verify that claim I can tell you that it sounds much better than other players such as Jriver and Foobar. We've still got a ways to go with digital, and I think that if you're on a smaller budget a CD player is still the way to go.(though it's gotten real close this past year)
You can also add in the third option that has neither the disadvantage of reading a disc realtime nor being in a 'noisy' environment. That would be the portable players like ipods and sansas. Unfortunately they tend to perform poorly as they have cheap DACs and don't really have enough power behind them to provide good dynamics or bass. I think a portable player designed around working with an external DAC would make for an interesting product. Then again, they can't fit much uncompressed music on them either. I expect in 5-10 years when 1tb of SSD storage is the norm this will be the way the industry goes.
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myu701
Vintage futurist
I can't believe that DAC coding hasn't improved. From what I've read, it sounds like it certainly has over time, as the technology is refined. Does that mean older ones aren't good? No. I think a lot of it may rest upon what media is being converted.
But from what I've seen more people tending to say, a really top notch transport coupled with a modern well received DAC is the best combination, and it doesn't matter if the transport was made 10-15 years ago as long as it's quality.
But from what I've seen more people tending to say, a really top notch transport coupled with a modern well received DAC is the best combination, and it doesn't matter if the transport was made 10-15 years ago as long as it's quality.
Robinhawaii
Super Member
OK but in my case I use an old CD transport ($3495.00) and an old DAC ($2750.00) vs. a $2.00 Cirrus Logic DAC chip in my iPod ($399.00) yes, you can hear a difference and the new, cheaper DAC does not come out on top.
RamblinE
(╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻
A bit extreme. I don't want to compare apples to oranges.
