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Can't get my sound right.

Poofables

New Member
Hello all,

I have a Kenwood KD-500 with Grace G-707 arm and Sonus "Blue" cartridge and stylus. I am runnint ith through the phono input on a Sansui 9090db and out to Polk Monitor 10a speakers.

The problem that I am having is that I can not seem to get any good sound out of my TT. Initially, when I hooked it up to my Sansui for the first time, I had overly bright, harsh highs and little of anything else. The music has no presence at all and no meat to it. It almost sounded like when I play streaming music though the Definitive speakers on my home theater set up.

So I decided to start over and set up the tone arm from scratch. The VTA was way high at the rear, so I figured that could be it.

After setting it up three different times, I either get the exact same thing I had before, or muddy, booming bass, also with no presence to the music and quiet soft highs. It doesn't seem like there is anything in between. And no matter what, the music doesn't sound "there". At any arm height.

When I was setting up the table, I noticed that anti-skid had no affect on the the sound either way. Also, it seems that if I play a newer 180gram album like Lady Gaga's "The Fame Monster" or any rap, I get the muddy bass. If I play some rock music, metal, blues or anything older, I get the highs and nothing else.

Everything else sounds fantastic through the receiver and the speakers.

After talking to what seems to be the only hi-fi shop in the area, their turn table expert said it sounds like my cartridge is going bad. He asked me a ton of questions and seemed fairly knowledgeable.

So, my options are to either:

A) Replace my cartridge with something under $400. (that's about all I can afford.)

B) Sell the Kenwood and Grace and use the money towards something new, set up from the factory so I don't have to keep worrying about it. I was thinking AT-LP5, Rega RP3.

But, I don't know how even the Rega would compare to what I already have with a decent cartridge installed.

Looking for advice and opinions.
 
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You have a very capable setup with the KD500 and Grace 707. I have owned the Grace 707 tonearm and it is a very nice arm, I would be leaning towards getting a new Cartridge rather than a whole new rig.
There are many cartridges that are in your price range just make sure they are compatible to that lightweight Grace 707.

Audiofreak71
 
You have a very capable setup with the KD500 and Grace 707. I have owned the Grace 707 tonearm and it is a very nice arm, I would be leaning towards getting a new Cartridge rather than a whole new rig.
There are many cartridges that are in your price range just make sure they are compatible to that lightweight Grace 707.

Audiofreak71

Any recommendations off the top of your head?

If I sold and got something new, I would essentially be spending nothing. If I don't sell, the cart is out of pocket. Does that sway your opinion at all?
 
If I remember right, that cartridge is from around 1976 or so. Do you know the condition of the stylus? Another thing I would check is the compatibility of the cartridge with the tonearm.

This is a good read: https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/tonearm-cartridge-compatability/

From what I understand, that Sonus blue was one of the most popular carts for that one arm in the day. There was another who's name escapes me that was basically the only other one commonly seen.

Also, I've had this turntable for about 20years now. I have had great sound from it in the past, so I don't think it's an incompatibility issue.
 
Well you will still have to potentially buy a new Cartridge, unless you buy new and the cartridge comes with the rig. I am someone who had had very bad experiences with new tables mid prices to fairly expensive. Once I went vintage I have had nothing but positive experiences (ymmv) so I believe you get alot more bang for your buck by going vintage.

I had a Grado Gold I and a Goldring 1042 with my Grace tonearm that worked well with it, but again you will need to match tg cartridge with that arm which is lightweight.

Audiofreak71
 
It sounds like your stylus is worn and time for a replacement. I'm not sure if there are replacement stylus for that cartridge but if you like the sound if it, it might be worth trying to find one. EBay, LP gear, Needle doctor are good places to start to try and find replacements.

Audiofreak71
 
It sounds like your stylus is worn and time for a replacement. I'm not sure if there are replacement stylus for that cartridge but if you like the sound if it, it might be worth trying to find one. EBay, LP gear, Needle doctor are good places to start to try and find replacements.

Audiofreak71

hehe, I looked into that as well. The stylus alone is $300+ IF you can find one. They have been out of production for some time it seems.
 
Ah OK well there are quite a few cartridges in your price range out there that should be compatible with that tonearm. There are grace cartridges that are still for sale used of course that will definitely work with that arm. There is tge F8 that can be had for around $150 and the F9 is a bit harder to find and much more expensive, I own an F9e and it's the best MM cartridge I have ever heard.

Audiofreak71
 
Hello all,

I have a Kenwood KD-500 with Grace G-707 arm and Sonus "Blue" cartridge and stylus. I am runnint ith through the phono input on a Sansui 9090db and out to Polk Monitor 10a speakers.

The problem that I am having is that I can not seem to get any good sound out of my TT. Initially, when I hooked it up to my Sansui for the first time, I had overly bright, harsh highs and little of anything else. The music has no presence at all and no meat to it. It almost sounded like when I play streaming music though the Definitive speakers on my home theater set up.

So I decided to start over and set up the tone arm from scratch. The VTA was way high at the rear, so I figured that could be it.

After setting it up three different times, I either get the exact same thing I had before, or muddy, booming bass, also with no presence to the music and quiet soft highs. It doesn't seem like there is anything in between. And no matter what, the music doesn't sound "there". At any arm height.

When I was setting up the table, I noticed that anti-skid had no affect on the the sound either way. Also, it seems that if I play a newer 180gram album like Lady Gaga's "The Fame Monster" or any rap, I get the muddy bass. If I play some rock music, metal, blues or anything older, I get the highs and nothing else.

Everything else sounds fantastic through the receiver and the speakers.

After talking to what seems to be the only hi-fi shop in the area, their turn table expert said it sounds like my cartridge is going bad. He asked me a ton of questions and seemed fairly knowledgeable.

So, my options are to either:

A) Replace my cartridge with something under $400. (that's about all I can afford.)

B) Sell the Kenwood and Grace and use the money towards something new, set up from the factory so I don't have to keep worrying about it. I was thinking AT-LP5, Rega RP3.

But, I don't know how even the Rega would compare to what I already have with a decent cartridge installed.

Looking for advice and opinions.

What is the VTF - Vertical Tracking Force set at? :idea:
 
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Funnily enough I sourced a Grace F9 and Soundsmith Ruby stylus a while back and have never understood the fuss about that cart. The F8L on the other hand is impossible to source a genuine stylus. I did get an F8L with worn stylus and preferred it to the F9. I rebodied it in an aluminium Pulse Guard body and bought a Jico VN35HE NeoSAS/S for it, removed the plastic finger grip and used in the cart. It is now one of my very best carts, and within spitting distance of my Phillips GP922 and Benz Micro MC3....
 
Later on when you get some more experience under your belt you will cry and regret the day you decided to sell the KD-500 and Grace 707, neither new table you mentioned can hold a candle to that combo. My "guess" is the Sonus blue stylus is the original and may have very high miles. You have a few oprtions, first try cleaning the stylus, use either Last or AT stylus cleaner, there may be a good amount of crud built up on the stylus. If that doesn't work you lost nothing since you can use the stylus cleaner on another future stylus. Second option is send the Sonus to either SoundSmith or Andy for a retip. As someone else suggested replace the Sonus with a Grace F8 or F9 cartridge an excellent match for the Grace 707 tonearm which would be within your budget. With so many AK members there is a good chance another experienced AK member lives close by in Ohio and will help you with the cartridge setup/alignment etc. SoundSmith has new replacement stylus for the Grace F9, a legendary cartridge. If no other complications SoundSmith or Andy can retip a Grace F8. Just about all the Grace cartridges are in a class of their own.
 
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The stylus (or cartridge if the stylus isn't replaceable) is a consumable item. It can't last forever and it sounds like your's has reached the end of it's useable life.

This is not necessarily a bad thing.
The most dramatic improvement you can make for your system will occur at the source...your cartridge.

I recently proved this to myself when I replaced my cartridge. The old one still "worked" but I felt some of the magic might be missing. I took this as an opportunity to upgrade something on my system and the result was dramatic. I am very happy.

The trick for you is to find a cartridge that is compatible with both your arm and system.

However, before you go through all the fuss...maybe check all of the connections first and clean them. That can mess things up too.
 
Later on when you get some more experience under your belt you will cry and regret the day you decided to sell the KD-500 and Grace 707, neither new table you mentioned can hold a candle to that combo. My "guess" is the Sonus blue stylus is the original and may have very high miles. You have a few oprtions, first try cleaning the stylus, use either Last or AT stylus cleaner, there may be a good amount of crud built up on the stylus. If that doesn't work you lost nothing since you can use the stylus cleaner on another future stylus. Second option is send the Sonus to either SoundSmith or Andy for a retip. As someone else suggested replace the Sonus with a Grace F8 or F9 cartridge an excellent match for the Grace 707 tonearm which would be within your budget. With so many AK members there is a good chance another experienced AK member lives close by in Ohio and will help you with the cartridge setup/alignment etc. SoundSmith has new replacement stylus for the Grace F9, a legendary cartridge. If no other complications SoundSmith or Andy can retip a Grace F8. Just about all the Grace cartridges are in a class of their own.

If I am going to look for an F9 cart, I noticed that there are letter series as a suffix. Is there anything to look for or stay away from?

Would it be more advisable to search for an F9 without the stylus and get a soundsmith right away?
 
I agree with other posters indicating keeping your current table. Sounds like you are new to turntables and ,if so, I would bring your table to the dealer and have them install a relatively inexpensive (<$100) cartridge on it (ask them for their recommendations). They should be able to align it properly (which is helpful for beginners) and can ensure the turntable/tonearm is functioning properly. Once you are up and running and are pleased with your vinyl experience, you can search for the recommended grace cartridges and learn the details of cartridge installation. Then the inexpensive cartridge can serve as a backup.
 
I don't know much about Grace arms other than I don't have one, but it might help the budget to know that www.zzounds.com is an Audio Technica dealer with some very nice carts in your price range - and some higher...and they have a nice easy monthly installment program. I'm sort of half-thinking about going that direction to finance a new MC cart, after I research AT moving coil carts to see what's comparable or a step up in sound to my Denon DL-300's.
 
Any chance you have a digital TF scale on hand? They're super cheap off of Amazon if not. Also for proper alignment you require one of the downloadable cartridge alignment protractors?

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

I used one of their templates to align the cartridge.

I also have a tf scale, but it did not come with a battery, so I have to find a battery for it and im thinking they are going to actually cost more than the $15 i spent on the scale. lol.
 
I don't know much about Grace arms other than I don't have one, but it might help the budget to know that www.zzounds.com is an Audio Technica dealer with some very nice carts in your price range - and some higher...and they have a nice easy monthly installment program. I'm sort of half-thinking about going that direction to finance a new MC cart, after I research AT moving coil carts to see what's comparable or a step up in sound to my Denon DL-300's.

I was on the phone with Audio Technica earler today. They recommended the VM540ML, VM740ML or VM750ML for my arm. Audio Technica is also local to me here and I know some people who work there that said they could get me their employee discount. It may be a good option to go that route.
 
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