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Canton Speaker Capacitor and Coil Reference Thread

Hi Mircea and welcome to Audiokarma.

I'll try to find some info on that 2102 cap. But my guess at this point is that you are right and we will find that it is 6.8µF. Every one of those old Wago caps that I've measured so far has risen in value, by as much as 20% (+).

I'll post here if/when I find anything.

Cheers,
James
 
Hello James,

Thanks for your answer. I also have plan to unsolder and measure the other cap - 1228 - 39uf to see how much it rised. Hopefully this will somehow demonstrate both rised same procentage and trying to confirm that 2102 is 6.8uf.

Best regards.
Mircea
 
MirceaB said:
Hello,
Wanted to tell you that i bought some good quality film capacitors form here labeled with canton. I supose they use them in the filters.
I am very happy with the result.
https://www.it-tronics.de/en/MKT-Capacitor-rad-5-6uF-100V-DC-27-5mm-R60ER4560ZC00J-5-6uF.html

Here you can find them.
Hooe it helps
Click to expand...

I have ordered from it-tronics several times with good results. Caps, lasers and other stuff. They have turned out to be a trustworthy outfit.

How do you like your Quintos? What amp are you running them with?

Cheers,
James
 
Hello,

I didn't had time to test them as I should. Yesterday I finished the quinto 510 and their sound have improved much. But still need to compare with 2 x Canton Plus S that seems to have a more warm and nice sound.

As a conclusion I am happy with the result.
I power them with a Yamaha rx v381. :)

Cheers,
Mircea.
 
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This thread is awesome! Planning to redo my Karat 300s. These were made in something like 1986-87 so it's probably just about time.
 
Roboturner91 said:
This thread is awesome! Planning to redo my Karat 300s. These were made in something like 1986-87 so it's probably just about time.
Click to expand...

Do it! You will probably notice that the caps have drifted up a fair bit if you measure them. I've been using film caps on the tweeters and the upper end of the mids with good results. And be sure to re-solder every connection.

Those are some pretty nice speakers. You're going to like them even more after recapping. IIRC you also have a fair collection of Yamaha amps? Perfect match for Cantons. They really compliment each other imho.

Cheers,
James
 
Hello All,

I just had to create an account to say that this is a very good post!
I'm thinking about recapping my Quinto 510, they are about 35 years old. I wrote to Canton about a year ago and the wrote
that I should buy meself a new pair of speakers instead of DIY old ones :) But I did wrote to them again two days ago and
this time I got a proper answer: I can confirm the values of 1101, 1102 and 1104. Unfortunately they say that 2381 info
is no longer available, but the value is on the list here.

* 1101 (23 VAC, 9P, TFZ/MT) --> Kondens. Elko 82µF 23VAC 5%G-F axial / Größe:25x40
* 1102 (23 VAC, 10P, TFZ/MT) --> Kondens. Elko 22µF 23VAC 5%G-F axial /Gr.14x30,14x35
* 1104 (40 VAC, 12P) --> Kondens. Elko 5,6µF 23VAC 5%G-F axial /Gr.10x30,12x26
* 2381 (EBT-GPF) --> no information available any longer.
Click to expand...

I have a question, do you add additional capacitors to achieve values not available in a single cap? I checked Jantzen and Nichicon
and couldn't find for exampe 5,6 µF.

I also wrote to WEGO to ask about 2381 and I'm waiting for an answer.

And here is the Quinto 510 crossover attached.
I found a strange white residue (like a dried up chemical of a kind) on bottom of the driver (pictrue). Did someone
saw something like this or know what is this?

Overall I'm suprised I think. After such a long time the speaker itself show very little wear. The surround of the low tone
speaker is elastic as rubber should be with no signs of tearing apart or glue giving up on the membrane.
The membrane is firm, not damaged and all, stiff as it should be. The center dust cover is also firmly attached.
And they play and image superb!

Best Regards
--
Kamil
 

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Hi Kamil and welcome to Audiokarma. :)

For 35yo the speaker in the photo looks great! Enjoy them, they are very nice little speakers.
The powder on the woofer back is a little bit of corrosion residue. You don't want to breathe it but when I see that I go out on my balcony where it's well ventilated and brush the stuff off with a stiff brush.

For the 1104 5.6µF use a Jantzen CrossCap film cap...
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/index_hifi_en.htm?hifi/capacitor_en.htm
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/jantzen-cross-cap-capacitors.html

The 2381 is 12µF. I've been using Monacor MKT.
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/ind...prechershop.de/hifi/monacor_capacitors_en.htm
There is a CrossCap in that capacity but they are larger than the Monacor.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/canton-quinto-510-thread.749067/

When I write to Canton I always ask for Lukas. He is always very friendly and helpful.
Kundendienst <kundendienst@canton.de>

Have fun!
James
 
Heh, Lukas answered my e-mail, you are right! :)

I found all Jantzen capacitors in required capacitance, the overall cost of the elements will not exceed 10-15 Euro/speaker.

But I have a question: all caps are electrolytic and I would like to replace them with ELKO too. I read that foil caps have different
ESR and can mess up the crossover parameters.
I see that 2381 is different than others, but still ELKO, right?

I uploaded the speaker front, almost like new ;)

K.
 

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I wouldn't worry about the lower ESR, it will actually leave the tweeters sounding nicer. I have 2 pairs of 510's and have renovated another 2 pair for friends. I used film caps for the 5.6µF and 12µF in all of them, and they all sound Delicious. (For the elkos I used Mundorf usually but also Jantzen once).

The 2381 in your crossover is an elko, just from a different firm. Frako? or something else, I don't recall exactly.

Wow! Yes, the speaker looks like new, not even any dust on the sticky domes. Very nice.

Cheers,
James
 
May I ask You one more thing? I see that you have much experience in this subject and I'm just an apprentice with my first project :)
I'm looking at the sizes of caps, both electrolytic and MKP (I'm thinking about those too), and their dimensions are about 10mm or even more
bigger (in length or in diameter) than the original components. How did you find the space for the new components? The 2381 replacement for example (Jantzen or Mundorf)
has the size of the 1101 and will barely if even fit between 1102, 1104 and inductors :)

K.
 
You can ask as many questions as you like, I'm always happy to help another AK member when I can.

Take a look through the Quinto 510 Thread that I linked to above in post #30. In post#4 of that thread there is a photo of the crossover after re-capping. It's a tight fit but it works. For the 2381 12µF I had to bend the outer lead down, and then under the cap, and then down again to reach the mounting hole.

For cap # 1102 22µF I used a Mundorf "etched" (Rau) cap. They are a good bit smaller than the un-etched caps (glatt). I believe that the Jantzen elkos are also etched because they are roughly the same size as the Mundorf etched caps.

I test fit all of the caps first after bending their leads to fit, and then removed them. Then I used a hot-glue gun to put a bead of glue under each cap and mounted it into position. After the glue cools you just have to trim the lead ends to 5mm or so, bend them down onto the pcb and solder. The hot glue holds the cap securely in place so that it isn't subjected to vibration and movement when the speaker is in use.

If you do decide to stick with elkos in all positions you can find what you want at HiFi Collective (including 5.6µF). Their selection of Jantzen caps is wider than most other places that I've checked.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_463.html
I've been pretty happy with HiFi Collective. Their prices are reasonable, very good selection, and they ship with airmail (unlike some other UK sellers that use the Royal Oxcart 3-Week Post) and orders usually arrive in less than a week.

I have more photos of the finished crossovers than I actually posted earlier. I will post some more in my Q-510 thread to give a better view things.

Cheers,
James
 
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Fantastic job with the speakers, I just saw the post!
And yes, you fit all the caps well on the crossover.
While I was looking at your renovation I saw that you also drilled a hole in the speaker for the new terminals.
I must say that the original are annoying ;) It could be good to have some banana connectors.

I found several places in Poland where I can buy them, but from the start I wanted to go with Premium ELKO.
Mundorf RAW have almost the exact sizes as the original caps (and 5% tolerance), but they do not have 12uF
and a parallel connection would do the trick, but again, space :)

Also, Jantzen has all PLAIN caps, much bigger than original.
I was thinking about mixing MKP and ELKO: in the smallest capacitances the price difference between ELKO and MKP
is almost negligible, but the biggest 82uF it 5 times expensive than Mundorf RAW.
 
Hi Everybody,

I have GLE100, already renovate the cabins which are really damaged too much. I will share the photos after speakers totally finished.

I have a question. After finished painting now I want to check X-over. The WEGO 2379 must be 15uf but when I measured both X-Over I find that they are approx 20 uf (at other multimeter 22uf) anwyay 5 uf value difference is too much, isn't it ? DO I need to change the caps or I have to keep them as it is because one of my friend told me that WEGO's are one of the best even when he measured 30-40 years WEGO caps the values are still same.

The other problem is 2 parrallel 10uf ITT caps. on my X-Over one of it axial 10uf but other X-Over's 10 uf's are normal squared Blue MKTs. DO I need to change them but it will make any difference on sound ?

Thanks a lot in advance and I am waiting your help.
 
Hi ElTuro,

All of the old Wego caps that I have measured showed high in capacitance. Your 15µF are shifting the upper midrange crossover point down from where it should be and are out of spec. As well, they probabably have a high ESR and leakage. Replace them. Replace all of the electrolytic caps.

The yellow ITT and blue MKT film caps normally don't show any bad measurements and normally I do not replace them. Possibly you might get a little better sound by replacing them with MKP caps but unless you have lots of money to spend and want to experiment I personally would leave them as they are.

Cheers,
James
 
Bratwurst7s said:
Hi ElTuro,

All of the old Wego caps that I have measured showed high in capacitance. Your 15µF are shifting the upper midrange crossover point down from where it should be and are out of spec. As well, they probabably have a high ESR and leakage. Replace them. Replace all of the electrolytic caps.

The yellow ITT and blue MKT film caps normally don't show any bad measurements and normally I do not replace them. Possibly you might get a little better sound by replacing them with MKP caps but unless you have lots of money to spend and want to experiment I personally would leave them as they are.

Cheers,
James
Click to expand...

James, thanks a lot for your reply. I will order new ELKOs as soon as possible. But still couldn't understand why Canton put different ITT MKTs for each CrossOver for a pare of speakers ?
 
The ITT caps were what they used in the older LE series. One of your speakers is probably a bit older than the other, or they were assembled at a transition period. I doubt that there will be a hearable difference in sound.

If you find after listening that you hear a difference you can always change them to some MKP polypropylene film caps. I've been using Jantzen CrossCaps and have been happy with the results, and they aren't terribly expensive. I don't know where you are but if you are in Europe I've been ordering from Strassacker in Germany and HiFi Collective in the UK, prices are similar but HiFi-C has a better selection.

http://www.lautsprechershop.de/
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/

Cheers,
James
 
James et al,

Does anyone have the crossover schematic for Canton Karat 20's? I have 2 pairs of CT 800's that I was able to re cap after reading this thread & I just got 2 pairs of Karat 20's at an estate sale. Any information or direction would be greatly appreciated.

Respectfully,

Bill
 
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