Canton Speaker Capacitor and Coil Reference Thread
The Karat 300 crossover points are 850hz / 4200hz.
The LE 500 came in an early series and a late series.
LE 500 early: 900hz / 4500hz.
LE 500 late: 750hz / 2800hz.
So if your crossovers are from the early series I can see how they might work reasonably well, if from the late series, not so much. One nice thing about them is that they do have all air-core coils.
The Karat 100 and 200 were available in both 4 ohm and 8 ohm versions. (!) The Karat 300 I do not know.
In your first photo. That coil down in the lower-right corner, looks like the number is 2099 or similar. That coil has gotten very hot at one point. I would be removing it and checking it for continuity/resistance.
Cheers,
James
Thanks James,
I will be checking that coil with number 2099.
Actually before buying, I have listened almost 30min with songs, I brought with myself and I liked cantons alot. For a while I was looking pair of good speaker to match with pioneer sx 850 receiver.
I plan to listen for sometime after changing those 110 uF's. Meanwhile I can find correct crossover match.
My mid driver is 1188 like quinto 540, meaning carat300's I have should be early production with this below crossover, but I will not hurry and be sure, afterwards find specs for each component. Some clear but especially coils are not.
I will be checking that coil with number 2099.
Actually before buying, I have listened almost 30min with songs, I brought with myself and I liked cantons alot. For a while I was looking pair of good speaker to match with pioneer sx 850 receiver.
I plan to listen for sometime after changing those 110 uF's. Meanwhile I can find correct crossover match.
My mid driver is 1188 like quinto 540, meaning carat300's I have should be early production with this below crossover, but I will not hurry and be sure, afterwards find specs for each component. Some clear but especially coils are not.
Hello, I would like to replace the old electrolytic capacitors of my Canton Karat 200/1 with new, low-ESR MKPA film capacitor. Unfortunately, I did not find the ESR values for the original capacitors part n. 2103, 2902 and 2424. Did anyone measure it? I want to connect small resistors in series with the new capacitors to compensate low ESR.
Does anyone have a schematic of 8Ω Canton Karat 200/1? I'm looking everywhere on the internet, but I can't find it.
Thank You!
Does anyone have a schematic of 8Ω Canton Karat 200/1? I'm looking everywhere on the internet, but I can't find it.
Thank You!
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Hi 026200 and welcome to Audiokarma.
I have been replacing all of the series caps in the tweeter and mid sections of Canton speakers with film caps (unless they have film caps originally). So far I haven't felt the need to pad them down to compensate for ESR and the speakers have been sounding very good.
If I was to do so I would not add a simple series resistor but would fit an L-pad (series + parallel). This because a simple series resistor will viary it's padding with frequency whereas an L-pad will offer a fixed amount of padding regardless of frequency.
Canton no longer has schematics for any of the x00 series Karat speakers. But you are lucky, I do have a pair of 200/1 8ohm crossovers on hand. I can sketch out a schematic based on one of them but it may take me a week or so before I can do that. I can also measure the ESR of the caps (the original caps are still installed) but those numbers will in my opinion be useless because after 30+ years they will have drifted far from their original values.
Cheers,
James
Thank you for idea of series and parallel connection of resistors.
I will be very grateful for your crossover schematics, it would help me a lot!
Karat 200 are beautiful speakers with a velvety sound, that are great for a little more analytical Yamaha amplifier. I would like to listen to them as long as possible.
I will be very grateful for your crossover schematics, it would help me a lot!
Karat 200 are beautiful speakers with a velvety sound, that are great for a little more analytical Yamaha amplifier. I would like to listen to them as long as possible.
The 200's are very nice speakers. A pair of 4 ohm K-200's were the first Canton's that I ever bought. And they do pair very nicely with a Yamaha amp.
I have this week off and will try to get the crossover looked over sometime during the week.
In the mean time, here is a link to a good online L-Pad calculator:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm
And Xsim is a really nice little (free) crossover simulator program:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/software-tools/259865-xsim-free-crossover-designer.html
Cheers,
James
I have this week off and will try to get the crossover looked over sometime during the week.
In the mean time, here is a link to a good online L-Pad calculator:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm
And Xsim is a really nice little (free) crossover simulator program:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/software-tools/259865-xsim-free-crossover-designer.html
Cheers,
James
I don't know the values of the coils
Nice work.
The values that I measured are as follows. Note that measured resistance usually is a little higher that the Canton schematic specs, and inductance usually measures a little lower than spec.
Coils:
1549 = 0.81mH / 2.4 ohms.
2546 = 0.36mH / 1.2 ohms.
2603 = 0.39mH / 1.2 ohms.
2908 = 2.35mH / 1.2 ohms.
The caps had all drifted high as usual:
2103 (10µF) = 12.5µF / 0.01 ohm ESR.
2424 (33µF) = 47.6µF / 0.01 ohm.
2902 (3.3µF) = 3.84µF / 0.33 ohm.
Cheers,
James
Thank you for measuring the values!
I was surprised that capacitors ESR values are quite low, I was expecting higher. What frequency was the ESR measured? Resistance is frequency dependent and instruments generally measure for 100 kHz.
I will use Monacor capacitors for woofer, midrange and Mundorf for tweeter. I will also exchange all resistors for Jantzen MOX.
I'm afraid I'll have to make a new circuit board. The new capacitors are too big...
I was surprised that capacitors ESR values are quite low, I was expecting higher. What frequency was the ESR measured? Resistance is frequency dependent and instruments generally measure for 100 kHz.
I will use Monacor capacitors for woofer, midrange and Mundorf for tweeter. I will also exchange all resistors for Jantzen MOX.
I'm afraid I'll have to make a new circuit board. The new capacitors are too big...
Based on the pictures which I found by googling for first series Karat 300 crossovers I have made the crossover schema.(I wrote to Canton but they do not have schema in their database)
Caps are as followed; (thanks to mccarty350 )
3779=6.8uf
2520=47uf
1317=5.6uf
2379=15uf
Resistors ;
Codes not clear but values are 27Ω, 82Ω, 68Ω, 1.2Ω and last one, which I could not read from photo (at tweeter).
Coils;
2673 ....... 2-022-06 = 0.22mH / 0.6 ohms (we have in the list here)
2799 ....... 6-327-16 = 3.27mH / 1.6 ohms. OR 6-350-13 = 3.50mH / 1.3 ohms. (we have two figures in the list)
2786 ....... ?????
..11 ....... ?????
Any assistance for
- missing resistor value
- which one of the coil 2799 is for Karat 300 first series
- missing value for 2786
- missing code and value for coil ..11
will be appreciated.
Caps are as followed; (thanks to mccarty350 )
3779=6.8uf
2520=47uf
1317=5.6uf
2379=15uf
Resistors ;
Codes not clear but values are 27Ω, 82Ω, 68Ω, 1.2Ω and last one, which I could not read from photo (at tweeter).
Coils;
2673 ....... 2-022-06 = 0.22mH / 0.6 ohms (we have in the list here)
2799 ....... 6-327-16 = 3.27mH / 1.6 ohms. OR 6-350-13 = 3.50mH / 1.3 ohms. (we have two figures in the list)
2786 ....... ?????
..11 ....... ?????
Any assistance for
- missing resistor value
- which one of the coil 2799 is for Karat 300 first series
- missing value for 2786
- missing code and value for coil ..11
will be appreciated.
New crossovers.
Measurements showed that the original capacitors of my Karat 200 has almost nominal values and zero ESR. So I decided to keep original crossovers and put these new ones in a drawer for worse times :-D
The original red WEGO and gold ROE caps are of exceptional quality!
Measurements showed that the original capacitors of my Karat 200 has almost nominal values and zero ESR. So I decided to keep original crossovers and put these new ones in a drawer for worse times :-D
The original red WEGO and gold ROE caps are of exceptional quality!
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Really nice work. Where did you source those capacitor and resistor mounts?
Cheers,
James
The Karat 300 does come in an 8 ohm version, I have a pair. They are apparently somewhat rare, according to the person (original owner) who sold them to me.
Just took them out of service, I plan to rebuild the crossover and upgrade the terminals. I will document that once I get started.....the issue is complacency, because I bought these little Andrew Jones Pioneer floorstanders to stand in (stand in! get it? hah!) for the Cantons, and the Pioneers are so damn good I just want to sit around listening to them and not worry about taking these tanks apart.
Just took them out of service, I plan to rebuild the crossover and upgrade the terminals. I will document that once I get started.....the issue is complacency, because I bought these little Andrew Jones Pioneer floorstanders to stand in (stand in! get it? hah!) for the Cantons, and the Pioneers are so damn good I just want to sit around listening to them and not worry about taking these tanks apart.
Hi,
I'm fairly new to this forum, although I've been reading and following the topic for a while.
Recently I've bought a pair of Canton Ergo 100 DC, I don't see or hear anything wrong with the sound, also I haven't inspected the crossovers visually
(offtopic: I had taken apart a speaker since there was some strange vibration from one driver - turns out it wasn't screwed in properly, must be the fact that over time the screws went a bit lose, anyway I was a bit puzzled seeing plastic driver frames for the higher end speakers of their time...)
Anyways should I be concerned with recapping the crossover? as far as I understand - to actually measure, I'd need to take apart the crossover, desolder all the caps and do the measurements provided my measuring device is accurate.
P.S.
Since I've already gone off-topic, Ergo 100 DC have 18Hz declared response, although I've yet to see any measurements or 18Hz@x -dB.
To my ears and in my room they seem to play from ~30hz.
Thank you,
I'm fairly new to this forum, although I've been reading and following the topic for a while.
Recently I've bought a pair of Canton Ergo 100 DC, I don't see or hear anything wrong with the sound, also I haven't inspected the crossovers visually
(offtopic: I had taken apart a speaker since there was some strange vibration from one driver - turns out it wasn't screwed in properly, must be the fact that over time the screws went a bit lose, anyway I was a bit puzzled seeing plastic driver frames for the higher end speakers of their time...)
Anyways should I be concerned with recapping the crossover? as far as I understand - to actually measure, I'd need to take apart the crossover, desolder all the caps and do the measurements provided my measuring device is accurate.
P.S.
Since I've already gone off-topic, Ergo 100 DC have 18Hz declared response, although I've yet to see any measurements or 18Hz@x -dB.
To my ears and in my room they seem to play from ~30hz.
Thank you,
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PoCko
New Member
Hi,
Here is a schematic for Canton SC-L. There are some values for @Bratwurst7s to add. The Canton Facebook profile where the only ones that have managed to send it to me. All other from Canton said that they no longer have it?!?
@Bratwurst7s
Can you take a look at my tread for an opinion?
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/canton-sc-l-crossover-help.922264/#post-13981220
Here is a schematic for Canton SC-L. There are some values for @Bratwurst7s to add. The Canton Facebook profile where the only ones that have managed to send it to me. All other from Canton said that they no longer have it?!?
@Bratwurst7s
Can you take a look at my tread for an opinion?
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/canton-sc-l-crossover-help.922264/#post-13981220
Thanks PoCko!
I added the values to the list. Also, just for fun I added a section showing all of the MKT foil cap info that I have found so far.
Cheers,
James
I added the values to the list. Also, just for fun I added a section showing all of the MKT foil cap info that I have found so far.
Cheers,
James
Correct. MKT foil caps are in every way better than electrolytics. There is little point in replacing them. A case can be made that a MKP cap might sound a little better in the tweeter section, but the difference will be subtle if any.
Regardless of what the schematic shows I am almost convinced that those black 56µF caps in your Ergo's are MKT foil. They substituted some other things there also. Notice that the resistors show 4 ohm and 9 ohm in the schematic and board silkscreen bit what is installed are 5w and 10w resistors.
I think that I will write Canton and ask if they have any info about the EV identification.
Cheers,
James