Canton Speaker Capacitor and Coil Reference Thread

Bratwurst7s said:
Correct. MKT foil caps are in every way better than electrolytics. There is little point in replacing them. A case can be made that a MKP cap might sound a little better in the tweeter section, but the difference will be subtle if any.
Click to expand...
I mean to recap MKT in the tweeter section with new like Jantzen Standart-Z 400V for instance.

Bratwurst7s said:
Regardless of what the schematic shows I am almost convinced that those black 56µF caps in your Ergo's are MKT foil. They substituted some other things there also. Notice that the resistors show 4 ohm and 9 ohm in the schematic and board silkscreen bit what is installed are 5w and 10w resistors.

I think that I will write Canton and ask if they have any info about the EV identification.

Cheers,
James
Click to expand...
The casing for the 56uF ones is interesting indeed. Looking rather strange to me if they are electrolytic. If they are foil ....again why the casing?

For the resistors you mean that on the board is written 4W and 9W but are installed 5W and 10W? Can the power rating of the resistors influence the sound?
 
PoCko said:
I mean to recap MKT in the tweeter section with new like Jantzen Standart-Z 400V for instance.


The casing for the 56uF ones is interesting indeed. Looking rather strange to me if they are electrolytic. If they are foil ....again why the casing?

For the resistors you mean that on the board is written 4W and 9W but are installed 5W and 10W? Can the power rating of the resistors influence the sound?
Click to expand...

No, the power rating of the resistors won't have any effect on the sound. And they actually installed higher rated resistors, which is good. I was just using them as an example that what Canton installed is not exactly the same as the schematic, and it can easily be that regardless of the "EV" ID those caps are likely MKT. Canton also used some very large foil caps in the CT-120 and CT-2000, and with the Ergo being their high quality line it wouldn't surprise me.

Also, there are actually usually 3 or 4 different variations of each speaker series because Canton seems to have done regular 6 month updates to most of their speakers, with small differences in each step. HiFi Wiki shows that the SC-L was made from 1992 to 1996 and that schematic is dated 30-3-1993. So I'm guessing that there are actually several more schematics for that speaker with small variations.

Other than the very early speakers that used the yellow oval bodied ITT MKT caps all of the MKT foil caps that I have seen in Canton's are rectangular plastic bodied in various colors. I have never seen an elco in a Canton in a plastic body.

Cheers,
James
 
Note 26-July-2020: I have just learned that I have been wrong concerning the 3rd number in the coil part nomenclature. It represents the wire diameter in mm and not resistance as I had previously thought!

I have edited all entries to reflect this. Now I just have to track down every damn post that I have made in every Canton thread concerning this and correct them. Sorry for any inconvenience that might have been caused by my error.

Cheers,
James
 
Bratwurst7s said:
I'm posting this thread as a service to other Canton speaker owners that want to recap and like me have found that the Wego caps that Canton used don't have their µF values printed on the cap.

Measuring the old caps isn't always useful as some of the caps were made to specific non-standard values (such as 120µF) and the ones that I've measured have been universally high (such as 139µF for that 120µF cap) so one doesn't really know which way to guess.

So I've been scouring the web for info and here is a list of what I've found so far, mostly from people posting in German forums that got a reply from Canton. The number is the part number printed on the caps.

Note that when reading Canton schematics electrolytic caps are identified in the parts list as "Kondens.El xxx" and foil caps as "Kondens.Fo". Foil caps id's as "ITT" are the oval vellow bodied caps used in early speakers such as the "LE" series. Where the info is available the lead spacing on foil caps is included. There is also a "Kondens. EV" identification that I haven't quite figured out yet.

Electrolytic capacitors:
1101 = 82µF/23vac
1102 = 22µF/23vac
1104 = 5.6µF/40vac
1170 = 68µF/23vac
1228 = 39µF/23vac
1317 = 5.6µF/35vac
1319 = 1.5µF/100v
1465 = 5.6µF
1467 = 10µF
1551 = 3.3µF/23vac (one reference stated 35vac)
1610 = 200µF
1611 = 6.8µF/100v
1615 = 120µF/35vac
1664 = 100µF/35vac
1882 = 4.7µF/35vac
2103 = 10µF/60vac
2379 = 15µF/23vac
2381 = 12µF/40vac
2424 = 33µF/23vac
2520 = 47µF/35vac
2525 = 8.2µF100v
2571 = 80µF/35vac
2695 = 69µF/35vac
2710 = 33µF/15vac
2793 = 10µF/25vac
2800 = 56µF/23vac
2801 = 47µF/23vac
2856 = 4.7µF
2893 = 100µF/23vac
2897 = 2.2µF
2902 = 3.3µF/70vac
3091 = 47µF/23vac
3092 = ? Measured a cap 3 times and got 81.7µF, 81.9µF and 82µF. 15vac printed on cap.
3098 = 18µF/23vac
3100 = 82µF/20vac
3384 = 33µF/23vac
3690 = 8.2µF/23vac
3692 = 10µF/23vac
3766 = 220µF/23vac
3779 = 6.8µF/23vac
4340 = 1000µF
5172 = 12µF
5668 = 18µF
5935 = 82µF
6440 = 470µF
6447 = 15µF

EV Capacitors:
5875 = 56µF/23vac

MKT Foil capacitors:
1319 = 1.5µF/100v
1465 = 5.6µF/100v (lead spacing 27.5mm)
1467 = 10µF/100v
1611 = 6.8µF/100v
1882 = 4,7µF/60v (lead spacing 27.5mm)
2103 = 10µF/100v (ITT)
2390 = 100µF/100v
2391 = 68µF/100v
2393 = 47µF/100v
2525 = 8.2µF/100v
2525 = 8.2µF/100v (ITT)
2668 = 12µF/100v (ITT)
2794 = 18µF/100v
2856 = 4.7µF/100v (lead spacing 27.5mm)
2897 = 2.2µF/100v (lead spacing 22..5mm)
3375 = 1.0µF/100v (lead spacing 15mm)
5170 = 3.0µF/100v
5260 = 3.9µF/100v
5427 = 22µF/100v
5868 = 18µF/100v


These are all that I've found so far. As I find more or if anybody contributes info to the thread I'll edit it into the list.

edit 24 May 2020: Now that I have built up a fair amount of Canton speaker schematics, and since questions have come up in the speaker forum about coil values, I am taking advantage of the Subscriber privilege of being able to edit posts and will be adding crossover coils below this note.

The coil values in Canton crossover schematics are actually easy to figure out because the values are incorporated into the item nomenclature ("Benennung") shown in the parts list.
The first number I believe to be either the coil height or diameter but I can not confirm that yet.
The second number is the mH value.
The 3rd number is the wire diameter in mm (and not DC resistance as I had previously thought).

Coils are known as a "Drossel" (choke) in the schematic parts list. Coil names that start with "FK" are "Ferrit-Glockenkern" = ferrite-bell-core coils. All others without a letter prefix are air-core coils. I will be listing the air-core and ferrite-core items separately for clarity. There are also coils id'd as "SK", denoting "StiftKernspulen" = ferrite-bar coil.

Note that when a comma appears in a number in a German schematic it is the same as a decimal point in a USA number.

edit 26-July-2020: I have just learned that I have been wrong concerning the 3rd number in the coil part nomenclature. It represents the wire diameter in mm and not resistance as I had previously thought! I am editing all entries to reflect this. Now I just have to track down every damn post that I have made in every Canton thread concerning this and correct them.

Air-core coils:
1156 =
1168 = 2-025-06 = 0.25mH / 0.6 mm.
1179 = 2-053-06 = 0.53mH / 0.6 mm.
1181 = 2-016-06 = 0.16mH / 0.6 mm.
1320 = 2-032-06 = 0.32mH / 0.6 mm.
1321 = 2-055-06 = 0.55mH / 0.6 mm.
1549 =
2096 = 2-048-06 = 0.48mH / 0.6 mm.
2097 = 2-034-06 = 0.34mH / 0.6 mm.
2267 = 7-320-16 = 3.20mH / 1.6 mm.
2531 =
2546 =
2603 =
2604 = 1-014-06 = 0.14mH / 0.6 mm.
2673 = 2-022-06 = 0.22mH / 0.6 mm.
2799 = 6-327-16 = 3.27mH / 1.6 mm.
2799 = 6-350-13 = 3.50mH / 1.3 mm.
2804 = 3-065-085 = 0.65mH / 0.85 mm.
2805 = 2-040-06 = 0.40mH / 0.6 mm.
2806 = 1-030-05 = 0.30mH / 0.5 mm.
2807 = 1-022-05 = 0.22mH / 0.5 mm.
2883 = 2-028-06 = 0.28mH / 0.6 mm.
3067 = 1-011-06 = 0.11mH / 0.6 mm.
3204 = 2-065-06 = 0.65mH / 0.6 mm.
3205 =
3258 = 2-052-06 = 0.52mH / 0.6 mm.
3310 = 2-050-06 = 0.50mH / 0.6 mm.
4914 = 2-0135-06 = 0.135mH / 0.6 mm.
6007 = 2-020-06 = 0.20µH / 0.6 mm.
6591 = 3-040-0.71 = 0.40mH / 0.71 mm.

Ferrite-bell-core coils:
1305 = FK36-060-10 = 0.60mH / 1.0 mm.
1401 = FK36-110-09 = 1.10mH / 0.9 mm.
1404 = FK52-280-1,0 = 2.80mH / 1.0 mm.
1873 = FK36-235-071 = 2.35mH / 0.71 mm.
2810 = FK36-217-071 = 2.17mH / 0.71 mm.
2862 = FK36-068-1,0 = 0.68mH / 1.0 mm.
2785 = FK36-132-0,9 = 1.32mH / 0.9 mm.
2908 =
3000 = FK52-350-10 = 3.50mH / 1.0 mm.
3062 = FK36-142-09 = 1.42mH / 0.9 ohms.
3257 = FK52-165-12 = 1.65mH / 1.2 ohms.
3309 = FK52-210-1,12 = 2.10mH / 1.12 mm.
3374 = FK52-140-1,32 = 1.40mH / 1.32 mm.
3483 = FK52-320-10 = 3.20mH / 1.0 mm.
3689 = FK26-026-071 = 0.26mH / 0.71 mm.
4731 = FK52-470-09 = 470mH / 0.9 mm.
4824 = FK52-190-1,12 = 1.90mH / 1.12 mm.

SK Ferrite-bar core coils:
1025 = SK7-320-1.32 = 3.3mH / 1.32 mm.

Other general notes for English speaking people concerning reading Canton crossover sheets:
"Schaltbild" means Schematic.
"Netzwerke" refers to the part number for the complete crossover.
Hochtöner = Tweeter.
Mitteltöner = Midrange.
Tieftöner = Woofer.
The field where "Zuschnitt" parts are identified refers to the quantity and size of the fiberglass damping sheets in the cabinets. They seem to be generally about 40mm thick from what I have seen, but that is not stated.
"Kondens." = Capacitor (short form).
"Widerstand" means Resistor.
Where an asterix (*) appears in a part description with the statement "wahlweise für:" it means that the choices can be substituted for the noted item.

Cheers,
James
Click to expand...

James -- did you get coil values for the Q510 coils? I have A/B tested my rebuilt Q510 against other speakers -- they image great, but they sound muddy. I'm going to check the speakers ohm value to make sure they are not 'blown' and was going to recheck the coils (mine are melted) and think they maybe a culprit. I love the imaging and want to enjoy them, but the sound is not there. Any insight would be appreciated.
 

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Hi Brett,
No, I have not been able to find any specs on those coils. But I think that we can make some pretty fair guesses.

I'm recalling from our PM that the 1156 and 3205 coils are the suspect ones.
I have 2x 1156 and 4x 3205 here.

The 1156 measured 0.39mH/0.9ohms & 0.40mH/0.9ohms.
The 3205's all measured @ 0.18mH/0.8ohms.

I measured the wire diameter with dial calipers and got 0.5mm dia. The spools measured about 25mm dia x 11mm high.

So if I was to need some I'd go with some Jantzen 0.39mH and 0.18mH in 0.5mm.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/000-1838-039mh-jantzen-air-core-wire-coil.html
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/000-1820-018mh-jantzen-air-core-wire-coil.html

I also recall that you wrote that one tweeter measured 3.36ohms. That's a bit low. They normally measure 3.9 to 4 ohms. I'd be suspecting that that tweeter got hot and partly shorted the voice coil.

Cheers,
James
 
Bratwurst7s said:
Hi Brett,
No, I have not been able to find any specs on those coils. But I think that we can make some pretty fair guesses.

I'm recalling from our PM that the 1156 and 3205 coils are the suspect ones.
I have 2x 1156 and 4x 3205 here.

The 1156 measured 0.39mH/0.9ohms & 0.40mH/0.9ohms.
The 3205's all measured @ 0.18mH/0.8ohms.

I measured the wire diameter with dial calipers and got 0.5mm dia. The spools measured about 25mm dia x 11mm high.

So if I was to need some I'd go with some Jantzen 0.39mH and 0.18mH in 0.5mm.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/000-1838-039mh-jantzen-air-core-wire-coil.html
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/000-1820-018mh-jantzen-air-core-wire-coil.html

I also recall that you wrote that one tweeter measured 3.36ohms. That's a bit low. They normally measure 3.9 to 4 ohms. I'd be suspecting that that tweeter got hot and partly shorted the voice coil.

Cheers,
James
Click to expand...

Thank you for information. Took them apart again and measured with a new meter: tweeters were 3.9ohms and mid 3.7 ohms. Played them again and one of the tweeters is not working. Looking at them, the cloth protection on the outside is coming off around the voice coils on all the tweeters and mid's. S I think it will be more to fix them from here than it is worth. I will be on a lookout for some clean Karat 100 or 200's; had a line on some in Germany, but they sold.

So, wanted to make you an offer since you have been so gracious of your time -- If you pay the freight to send them to you, I will give them to you. Woofers are good, cabinets and grills are good and all new caps on the cross overs -- so if you have extra tweeters and mid's and maybe put so new coils, you would be in business. Let me know. Thanks again.
 
Hello everyone, my name is Antonio and I have an audio system consisting of 5 Canton speakers, two LE109 as front, two GL310 as rear and one LE205CM as front center, in the GL310 being the oldest I proceeded to change the two capacitors putting a MKP instead of the electrolytic in series with the tweeter, the old ones even if dated were out of value a little but in a different way between the two speakers, these days I wanted to check the central speaker LE205CM but the electrolytic capacitors have too much capacity high for my multimeters and therefore I cannot test them properly, one marked "6440" is indicated as 470uf, but the other marked "2374" there is no value indicated, who can help me? among the lists posted here by you the 2374 is not there and I can't find anything on the net about this speaker or its crossover. Thanks in advance.
 
Hello, waiting for someone to answer me, I contacted Canton who replied that they no longer have any documentation for these speakers and they could not even tell me what the capacitor marked "2374" corresponds to, frankly from a company that I highly respect does not I expected such a thing, it is wrong to delete the documents of the older speakers, precisely because over the years they may need repairs.
 
Hello Antonio,

Sorry but I don't have and can't find any info on that 2374 cap.
If your meter can't measure the cap then I'd recommend buying one of those little MG328 chip parts testers on ebay. They are pretty useful little things considering they only cost €10.
Direct links to ebay listings aren't allowed in the forums but if you copy...

Newest 3.7V version of inductor-capacitor ESR meter DIY MG328 multifunction test

...into the search field on ebay you will find the item.

One thing that is important when using one of these little testers is that caps must be discharged before testing them or the device can be destroyed.

Cheers,
James
 
BrettK said:
Thank you for information. Took them apart again and measured with a new meter: tweeters were 3.9ohms and mid 3.7 ohms. Played them again and one of the tweeters is not working. Looking at them, the cloth protection on the outside is coming off around the voice coils on all the tweeters and mid's. S I think it will be more to fix them from here than it is worth. I will be on a lookout for some clean Karat 100 or 200's; had a line on some in Germany, but they sold.

So, wanted to make you an offer since you have been so gracious of your time -- If you pay the freight to send them to you, I will give them to you. Woofers are good, cabinets and grills are good and all new caps on the cross overs -- so if you have extra tweeters and mid's and maybe put so new coils, you would be in business. Let me know. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Sorry Brett, I missed this earlier.

There is still one potential solution that would be somewhat reasonable cost wise, if you have the correct version of the drivers.

There are 2 types of the domes.
The early ones have aluminum faceplates and the voicecoil leads come up out of the domes, make a little loop and then go down through a hole on the faceplate and then are routed out to to the sides.
The later ones have plastic faceplates and the voicecoil leads come off of the sides of the coils and are routed directly to the sides.

There is a fellow in Poland that sells generic replacement domes on ebay. I bought a pair of them a couple of years ago for tweeters for only about €20.
While they looked very good that is when I learned about the 2 different types of domes and that I have the 1st type while the replacements were made for the 2nd type. :(

So I can't tell you how good the replacements would have worked, but if you have the later type of domes it might be worth looking into.

Thank you very much for the very kind offer. But the reality is that shipping the speakers over here and then repairing them would cost as much as I can find a pair for here. I think that the best direction at this point is to wait. At some point things are going to turn back to something like normal and we can find some replacement drivers for a reasonable cost.

Cheers,
James
 
Bratwurst7s said:
It certainly looks like a FK. For now I have moved it to the FK section with a ?note.

James
Click to expand...

Canton went from BLM FK, Ferrit-Glockenkern drossels to BLM PK, Ferrit-Pilzkern drossels
so PK 40-110-1,12 and FK 52-110-?? is correct for drossel 4875.

It looks like they changed the type of drossels but not the part numbers and millihenry, mH values.

The new PK 40-110-1,12 is a BLM type PK 40 drossel and the old one ,pictured above, is a BLM type FK 52 drossel so the "benennung" of the old drossel should be FK 52-110-??.

For example I got this info from Canton about drossel 3000 /

3000.png

The new "benennung" is: PK 40-350-0,85 and the old "benennung" in your list and what I´ve found in old crossover schematics is: FK 52-350-10

Some BLM drossel info: https://www.blm-elektrobauteile.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/BLM-Katalog-2017.pdf
 
Last edited:
All good info Henko. Thanks!

That BLM catalog is where I found that what I previously thought was resistance in the PN was actually wire diameter.

Cheers,
James
 
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