Cerwin Vega Dissapointment

[Gibsonian]

My last post in this thread....

I never once said or implied the Kappa 9 was easy or should be easy to drive due to its efficiency rating.

And the simple fact is CV speakers are easier to drive than many other speakers. The pair I was talking about I recently repaired were being driven on a run of the mill Onkyo AVR. I think around 85 watts. I've heard them so loud they sounded like nothing more than static and loud flabby and boomy bass. Right at clipping. I tend to value my hearing better than some I guess. And at that same level my buddy thought they sounded good.

I'm out now.

Would have sounded much better on a high quality high power amp

 

[whoaru99]

Yeah its called clipping! lol If you are putting larger fuses in them, its a matter of time before a tweeter or mid blows out. Or even a cap on the xo. I JUST repaired a pair of CV LS-12's for a guy at work. Who put larger fuses in them than whats recommended. Blown mids in both cabinets. And a bulged cap on one of the xo's. Also there is more to an amplifier than just it rated wpc output. I've seen a good quality high current 165 wpc amp drive Polk SDA3.1's to chest thumping levels. While a 300wpc "pro amp" **** itself.




xero, you need to read up on what makes the Kappa 9 a hard speaker to drive. There's a wee bit more to it than how efficient the speaker is!


Apologies to the OP for joining in on the derailing of this thread. I hope you get things sorted out and enjoy your speakers.

Certainly amps have different capability, but the notion of a "high current" 165W amp is nonsense. Any amp putting out the same power into the same load is producing the same current.

 

[Gibsonian]

Would like to hear a pair of the CV CLS215's.

 

[whoaru99]

And that 300/2 Sunfire amp never runs outta steam,never gets hot,and it never clips,no matter how hard it's being driven,it's truly an amazing amp,so yeah Bob Carver probably know'
Bret P.

Never clips? Apparently he's not using as much power as thought. It's not big enough to never clip unless it's being artificially prevented from doing so (aka McIntosh Power Gard) or not being pushed as hard as thought.

 

[Northwinds]

northwinds comment about "they dont open up untill you hit 50 watts on the M-504" can be confusing, are you saying 50w peaks or 50w constant power? (if constant its probably hitting 75+w peaks)

50w average indicated both channels, obviously there is higher peaks but I tried to keep the meters more or less on the 50w mark and that's where they start to come alive. After that is when they really open up

 

[Northwinds]

i'll throw in my final .02 here... i think some of you guys with the "massive power" claims are confusing something... wattage to speakers have RMS & peak power ratings

fact is most of you have no clue how many real watts are being pushed to your speakers. as i mentioned before, yes a high power QUALITY amp will usually always sound better than a low power amp especially in bass heavy music on power hungry speakers due to the extended headroom or "reserve" power it has, but to make statements like they are matter of fact about how a 102db SPL soeaker "needs" "massive power" is simply not true

Just so you know, a few of us that have replied to this thread run WOPL 500w and 1000w amps with these so we know our power

Here is my WOPL500, think it's not pushing near max power? My Clair Bros PL-700 is getting the max WOPL upgrade which is why I am using the lowly M-504

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v514/maxwedge426/DSCF7335_zpskrsscsda.mp4

 

[xero-D-hero]

Never clips? Apparently he's not using as much power as thought. It's not big enough to never clip unless it's being artificially prevented from doing so (aka McIntosh Power Gard) or not being pushed as hard as thought.

Well it has'nt clipped on him yet,granted that's not to say it cant/wont ever clip,just that it has'nt done so thus far. Not with any of those speakers @ any volume. That 300/2 amp just keeps pouring on the power the harder it's pushed. No fans either yet it still never gets hot. Dont ask how it does any of that either,cuz I dunno how it can do that,I just know it does. So far it's been the perfect amp for those power hungry Kappa 9's.

And it's not because he does'nt play it loud either,trust me he does.
Like I said earlier,that Sunfire 300/2 amp is a beast.

There's a whole lotta other amps cant say that,those Kappa 9's laughed at numerous "lesser" amps.

FWIW

Bret P.

 

[Chris Brown]

the "overload" lights blinking on your amp are most likely whats called clipping, the indicators are telling you your amp is being driven above its rated distortion & is clipping, it does NOT mean its hitting its rated max power... running amps at clipping or above will blow the most power hungry speakers even if you arent hitting their max wattage. if you are blowing fuses on d-9's & your amp is clipping.. you should probably turn the volume knob down a few notches or get a better amp that can drive the speakers to those levels.. without clipping.

The overload lights on the amp I was referring to come on at 2% THD, which actually makes it easy to not have the amp clip, since you have that visual warning of when it is getting very close. I never claimed that represented max output, but clearly it's putting out quite a bit at that point... It's pretty ironic that you would recommend a more powerful amplifier.

Yeah its called clipping! lol If you are putting larger fuses in them, its a matter of time before a tweeter or mid blows out. Or even a cap on the xo.

Just to be clear, the fuse replacement on the D-9 was done with the full blessing of Cerwin-Vega technical support:

Hello,

The standard fuse for the D-9 is 2.5 amp "slow-blow" or slow-acting
(250Volt/3AG). You can also use a 3 amp slow-blow fuse if the 2.5 amp fuses
blow.

Best Regards,

Phil Koehn
CV Technical Support Services

CERWIN-VEGA!
9340 De Soto Ave.
Chatsworth, CA 91311
818-534-1531
technicalsupport@cerwin-vega.com
<mailto:technicalsupport@cerwin-vega.com>

 

[Northwinds]

I used to have the Sunfire 300/2 paired up with the 1st generation Sunfire Classic Tube Preamp. Good combo except the pre did not have the optional phono preamp. I liked the Levinson 333.5 much better then the Sunfire stuff. The Levinson was replaced with WOPLs. The circle goes round and round LOL

I run 5A 250V fastblo's in the D9's (tone controls bypassed and 4A 250V fastblo's in the E-712's. Never burnt a tweeter or mid. Clean power lets you push a 'lil more

 

[xero-D-hero]

Would like to hear a pair of the CV CLS215's.

They are indeed very nice sounding speakers,especially when fed ample power,and it's not all bass either,these speakers are very well balanced & capable of excellent detail. I'm sure if you hid them from view and asked someone listening to them what speakers they thought they were listening to it would be a good long while before anyone guessed that they were infact listening to CV speakers.

The hardest part in doing something like that would be hiding them from view,as they're not exactly the smallest speakers,LOL.

IIRC there was a review on the web from the absolute sound if anyone prefers another POV on those.

But yeah,I'm sure they're not what most folks would expect from their appearance & CV branding.

Bret P.

 

[Northwinds]

They are indeed very nice sounding speakers,especially when fed ample power,and it's not all bass either,these speakers are very well balanced & capable of excellent detail. I'm sure if you hid them from view and asked someone listening to them what speakers they thought they were listening to it would be a good long while before anyone guessed that they were infact listening to CV speakers.

The hardest part in doing something like that would be hiding them from view,as they're not exactly the smallest speakers,LOL.

IIRC there was a review on the web from the absolute sound if anyone prefers another POV on those.

But yeah,I'm sure they're not what most folks would expect from their appearance & CV branding.

Bret P.

^^^^^ The E-712s are like that, no one believes they are hearing CV's until the grills come off

 

[xero-D-hero]

I used to have the Sunfire 300/2 paired up with the 1st generation Sunfire Basic Tube Preamp. Good combo except the pre did not have the optional phono preamp. I liked the Levinson 333.5 much better then the Sunfire stuff. The Levinson was replaced with WOPLs. The circle goes round and round LOL

I run 5A 250V fastblo's in the D9's (tone controls bypassed and 4A 250V fastblo's in the E-712's. Never burnt a tweeter or mid. Clean power lets you push a 'lil more

My friend uses a Yamaha C4 for the preamp with his,seems to be a great combo for him thus far.

Things get a bit crazy with the 4 ohm D-9's and those Bryston mono-blocks though (that's 800wpc for those keeping track of such things),with those D-9's the volume knob becomes an excersize in maximum restraint as it gets crazy loud with just the slightest twist of the knob.

Even at that he's never blown anything,the tweeters & mids are still hanging in there so far.

My friend has'nt run the Kappa 9's with the mono-blocks yet,as he needs a helper (or two) to move those big'uns into place.

No doubt it should be an interesting audition session when he does get around to doing that though.

Bret P.

 

[xero-D-hero]

^^^^^ The E-712s are like that, no one believes they are hearing CV's until the grills come off

When I first got my E-712's (bought them new from J&R music) I was powering them with a 110w JVC receiver (RX-318b) and it was immediately clear to me that it was'nt doing those speakers any justice,so I just stuffed them back in their boxes till I had some gear I felt could do them right.

I currently have a couple amps that I feel could power them now,the problem is now I dont have the room to set all that up,LOL.

I almost bought that 300/2 from my friend after he bought those mono-blocks,but he's had time to replenish his funds and come to his senses,so that boat has sailed.

So yeah I'm with you on that,great speakers deserve great gear to drive them.

JM2¢

Bret P.

 

[whoaru99]

The overload lights on the amp I was referring to come on at 2% THD, which actually makes it easy to not have the amp clip, since you have that visual warning of when it is getting very close. I never claimed that represented max output, but clearly it's putting out quite a bit at that point... It's pretty ironic that you would recommend a more powerful amplifier.

That's the thing about clipping. It's not really an on/off situation in regard to audible effect. Yes, there is some point where there is no clipping and a point where clipping begins. However, clipping itself can range from very little and materially unnoticeable, to extreme and horrible sounding.

As far as maximum power output, that depends where you draw the line. If you allow only 0.01% THD then power will be one number, if you allow 1% THD it will be some higher number, if you allow 10% THD it will be something even higher yet.

I thought 1% THD was a generally agreed point at which to measure max power, re. onset of clipping, but perhaps it's not any sort of standard. Might be out of the pro sound arena. They tend to be more pragmatic in these regards.

 

[Northwinds]

Just jumping in here and mentioning now I am running a 514wpc Clair WOPL with the D9's for quite awhile and they never sounded better/happier then with high power reserves

The M-504 is long gone, been what 2 years now and the E-712s now are in the garage getting driven by a US made in 1978 CV A-2200 Sensurround theater amp. They are happy too