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Cerwin Vega speaker help needed

G

gagecalman

New Member
I have a pair of Cerwin Vega U-15 speakers that I bought overseas in 1981 when I was in the Air Force.
I power them with a Pioneer SX-3900.

In 1998 the foam surround died on the woofers so I sent them to CV for repair. I also sent the tweeters so they could check them out (bad mistake). The woofers came back fine. The bass on the 15" is awesome!

Unfortunately, they threw away my tweeters and sold me a new set of C5G tweeters without notifying me. They didn't sound the same. I don't know what it was but it sounded worse.
I called CV and they said my old ones were gone.

So now I am taking more time to listen to music and want to see if I can make things better.

The U-15 is a two-way speaker and the crossover point is 2.5 KHz. I looked up the specs on the C5G and the response appears to be 4 kHz - 20 kHz. I really don't understand the sounds we hear in the different ranges.

So my questions are:

Am I missing sound between the 2.5kHz and 4kHz?

Does anyone have an original U-15 that could show me what tweeter is installed?

Is there a better tweeter that I can install or do I have the right one?

Thanks for reading this and any help is appreciated!

Jim
 
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gagecalman said:
I have a pair of Cerwin Vega U-15 speakers that I bought overseas in 1981 when I was in the Air Force.
I power them with a Pioneer SX-3900.

In 1998 the foam surround died on the woofers so I sent them to CV for repair. I also sent the tweeters so they could check them out (bad mistake). The woofers came back fine. The bass on the 15" is awesome!

Unfortunately, they threw away my tweeters and sold me a new set of C5G tweeters without notifying me. They didn't sound the same. I don't know what it was but it sounded worse.
I called CV and they said my old ones were gone.

So now I am taking more time to listen to music and want to see if I can make things better.

The U-15 is a two-way speaker and the crossover point is 2.5 KHz. I looked up the specs on the C5G and the response appears to be 4 kHz - 20 kHz. I really don't understand the sounds we hear in the different ranges.

So my questions are:

Am I missing sound between the 2.5kHz and 4kHz?

Does anyone have an original U-15 that could show me what tweeter is installed?

Is there a better tweeter that I can install or do I have the right one?

Thanks for reading this and any help is appreciated!

Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim welcome.

U15s? Now that's not something I've seen on AK. I'm sure they have been talked about just not often :)

That's a rare set of speakers, that was Citwin Vega HED line.. Hi energy... something or other...

Your best bet is looking on ebay for parts If and when they show up!

Pretty cool man. Sorry I can answer your frequ response question.

@OnTheBlitz may be able to :)
 
Can you tell, did they just throw in the tweeters, or did they mess with the crossover too?

Were the tweeters working when you sent them in? If so you need to really start a stink because I find it very doubtful they tossed them. Someone probably wanted them for themselves and kept them.
Start calling, writing, and e-mailing lots and lots until they're tired of hearing from you. Not just one person, everyone you can find connection info for. At least you might be able to get the putz fired. Maybe you can get your tweets replaced or returned. Point out you belong to this forum and have many Cv fans who aren't happy about it and their reputation is in jeopardy.
 
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Welcome to AK Gage! Lordy, what a nightmare, I'm really sorry to hear about that. Makes me sad.

I would say that you are missing some frequencies, and anything from 2.5k up to 4k probably sounds like crud. You state that the specs on the C5G says it's useful from 4k to 20k. Which means, it probably wants a second order or higher crossover to bring it in at 4k, but most likely it would rather have something around 5k. The tweeter has a mechanical crossover at a certain frequency, this would be somewhere below 4k. Between that and 4k the tweeter's response is lousy, not worth using. What all that jibber jabber boils down to is that your speakers sound like crap and you need the original tweeter that went in there. Yes, there probably are better/more modern tweeters that you can use. But not having original tweeters is going to ruin any resale value, or your ability to to sell them at all.

What you need is a pair of the original tweeters. I don't know what the original tweeters were. You need to setup a search in your ebay account for Cerwin Vega U-15. Watch and see what rolls by. I also suggest that you pay the $25 yearly fee for Audiokarma and get access to Barter Town. You can post a wanted to buy ad in the Parts area for your tweeters.

While you're poking around in there, replace the capacitors in the crossover.

Biggles
 
gagecalman said:
I have a pair of Cerwin Vega U-15 speakers that I bought overseas in 1981 when I was in the Air Force.
I power them with a Pioneer SX-3900.

In 1998 the foam surround died on the woofers so I sent them to CV for repair. I also sent the tweeters so they could check them out (bad mistake). The woofers came back fine. The bass on the 15" is awesome!

Unfortunately, they threw away my tweeters and sold me a new set of C5G tweeters without notifying me. They didn't sound the same. I don't know what it was but it sounded worse.
I called CV and they said my old ones were gone.


Jim
Click to expand...


CV made a bunch of the same or very near identical speakers and labeled them with different model numbers, especially for overseas and certain vendors. So I'm thinking and assuming your U 15's are going to be similar to any of the HED 15" models of that time period.

Look for any of the original horn tweeters being sold on ebay or craiglist etc. I would bet you could use any of the ones for 12" or 15" models and it will put you back to what you had. The ones they sent you are not even close to those older bullet horn tweeters.

Just so you don't feel bad, I did something similar. I have an original pair of U 123s I bought in '78. Somewhere in the late 80s or early 90s, I blew one of the tweeters, or so I thought. I ordered a new tweeter and misplaced the old one. The new tweeter was noticeably different than the old, and sounded like crap. I lived with it for awhile and then put the CW into storage. Last year I pulled them out and re-foamed the woofers and searched for an original tweeter. I ended getting one that was identical to my old and voila, I had my old U 123s back and can get some serious sound @ 30-40 watts.

I found that old tweeter. Turns out that it wasn't blown out at all. I think I must have tripped overload protection and didn't notice or didn't reset it until I had already replaced it. All that for nothing!

Good luck with your search. I don't know why, but those old CW horn tweeters were matched really well for the U-### models. You probably can even go all the way to the early 90s with the D series like D7 or D9 tweeters and get better performance than what you have now.
 
Thanks for all of the replies!

I don't plan on selling them or care about resale value so if anyone has a better option for a tweeter replacement I am all ears.
I would like to improve the sound which I believe is possible.

desertrat748: would you still have your original tweeter that you found? I would like to know if there are any numbers on the back.
 
There are some model numbers on the back. I think it’s packed up and in a storage unit. Moving when I find a decent house.

I’m going to look for it when I get the chance. But, I’m positive that you can use just about any of the ones for the HED models. As I recall when I was looking, they used a bullet horn model on many different speakers and adjusted via the crossover.

My experience with it was they all sounded great/same as long as they were Cerwin Vega and not some cheaper copy.
 
lokerola said:
If you go look at simplyspeakers site, they list some bullet speakers for Cerwin Vegas. The T-123 is listed as compatible with the U15 model.
Click to expand...

Those are close, but not exact same as orig. Cerwin Vega C 5. The C 5 was very common and had some small cosmetic changes. My era had the black silk mesh dust cap covering the bullet. Some did, some didn't. Some had little cerwin vega woofer symbol stamped all around the front flange. Some are super nice like the S1 model and are polished metal. Those are different, but better and expensive/rare.

He is going to want the ones that are listed as such on the back:

C V
C 5
8 Ohm (ohm symbol)

8024 (something close to that, 80XX or 81XX etc.)
 
Use this old link. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=280394

Scroll down and find the 2nd photo link and it will list the HED of 1980. EDIT: I"m sad because I used to have this brochure and dreamed of the 15". Mine were the U 123s. The same as the U 321s basically but without the little built in floor stand at the bottom. Technically, mine were the "bookshelf" models and more compact and efficient. Ha!

But, all those models have the same 1" tweeter for 2-way or 3-way (except for the U 10s & U 6s, had the dhorn with a bit more range up to 20khz instead of 17khz). His U 15 was the 2 way with a different crossover point of 2500, versus the 3500 for 3 way.

Or better yet. Here:

index.php
 
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desertrat748 said:
Those are close, but not exact same as orig. Cerwin Vega C 5. The C 5 was very common and had some small cosmetic changes. My era had the black silk mesh dust cap covering the bullet. Some did, some didn't. Some had little cerwin vega woofer symbol stamped all around the front flange. Some are super nice like the S1 model and are polished metal. Those are different, but better and expensive/rare.

He is going to want the ones that are listed as such on the back:

C V
C 5
8 Ohm (ohm symbol)

8024 (something close to that, 80XX or 81XX etc.)
Click to expand...

Ah, good point. I'd still give simplyspeakers and/or parts-express tech support a call. They might have an idea of a good replacement. Or set up a search on fleabay. :)
 
Don't forget https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ for giving someone a call and talk about your project. I've called them 3 times in the last coupla years with technical questions regarding modern tweeter integration into vintage speakers. Each time, the tech was able to talk directly about their available product, how best to build a proper crossover for it, vs how one tweeter sounded vs another. They gave me all the information I needed to allow me to make the best choice for my project and get it installed properly.

Biggles
 
I didn't realize there was a difference between a D 5 G and a D 5 tweeter. Is it just a different diaphragm? Are the specs different? They look the same on the outside. I just bought the D5G for my U123, darn!!
 
cimchazz1 said:
I didn't realize there was a difference between a D 5 G and a D 5 tweeter. Is it just a different diaphragm? Are the specs different? They look the same on the outside. I just bought the D5G for my U123, darn!!
Click to expand...

Do you know what year the G came from? Does it have the silk mesh cover or can you see the metal horn in the center?

I would swap them in pairs w two matching until you find one from that era.

I have a pair of U123 s. I had to replace a tweeter also. You will be able to hear a difference if they are indeed different. I put mine side by side and switched back and forth in mono to compare. Replacement was brighter and a little bit louder when both set up the same in back.

Good luck and any of those from late 78 until earlier 80s for the u123 or similar should be the same.
 
Ps. Lots of those were made and they are constantly being disassembled and sold out for parts. Cabinets too heavy and large for shipping.
 
Thanks, interesting, I noticed that. I've beed watching for some older CV's in my area for awhile. Many of the newer ones but not any older D5 size. Here's the tweeters I bought, D5G:

s-l1600.jpg



s-l1600.jpg
 
After really trying to research this Cerwin Vega stuff, I'm thinking info in the brochures didn't reflect the changes and substitutions I've seen in the cabs themselves. I'd like to understand what was different between these 2 tweeters, if anything? Maybe the crossovers were just different? Otherwise, the only difference could be the diaphragms?? What else could it be?
 
This was true of most every manufacturer. The brochures and flyers were usually printed way before the speakers made it into full production so things were "subject to change with minimal notice" (which meant none). There were running changes with every speaker (and electronics) company depending on what they had "in the barn" at any given time. Capacitors might change, crossovers redone, maybe a driver change, etc., etc.
 
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