Cerwin Vega speaker help needed

[7whales7]

Cim I believe that's a covered horn tweeter, replacements should be easy to find. Most older Cerwin's used them.I have an old set of HED'S one with the tweeter cover and one with out. I know alot of the Cerwin guys like the AT 15 model because it has a dome tweeter...not the horn, something to think about. Good speaker, find a orig. Tweeter or find a soft dome replacement that meets specs and fits. Try Parts Express, Mid-West speakers etc. Call a talk to a tech who can help. If you sit or keep posting some knowledgeable member will pop in. Believe your ears...not what others write...if you like them fix them and rock out.

 

[desertrat748]

Ahhh, yes, they say patience is a virtue, but it's not one of mine, especially as I get older and there is less time in front of me than behind me.
From all my minutes of research up to now, the U321 drivers are more like the 1230 than the U123's. Still curious which woofers they used in 1230, could also be like U321? I think I know which tweets and mids I need if I want to keep it original.

Yes, the 123, and 321 were the same 12 inch woofers. Same for tweeters. I have some time to pull mine out and will get you the model numbers for both tweeter and the woofers.

I love my CV U123s. Any of the older CVs from the 70s up to 90s seemed to be well designed and nice woofers in them.

Lots bash them but I don’t care. You shouldn’t either. Set up correctly, they are really great speakers. IMHO, Best bang for the buck in the $300 and under range.

I ll send you some pics w model numbers.

 

[desertrat748]

Yes, the 123, and 321 were the same 12 inch woofers. Same for tweeters. I have some time to pull mine out and will get you the model numbers for both tweeter and the woofers.

I love my CV U123s. Any of the older CVs from the 70s up to 90s seemed to be well designed and nice woofers in them.

Lots bash them but I don’t care. You shouldn’t either. Set up correctly, they are really great speakers. IMHO, Best bang for the buck in the $300 and under range.

I ll send you some pics w model numbers.

Okay I’m taking mine apart Right now so hold on a second. In the meantime I’ve looked up the original brochures by us are in Vega their post it on a K here a long time ago. I’ll try to put those pictures and also for you to look at. According to the brochure it’s different than the specs listed on vinyl engine for that you want to threes. Instead of crossing over at something high like 1200 hz, they are listed as 700/3500 for cross over spots rather than the 1200
listed on ve. The 321 are listed as 800/3500.

When I bought mine, the shop had both models the U321sand the U123s, 123s Supposed to be more compact and a “bookshelf” as opposed to the 321s w a bigger box, more volume and a little lower and flatter bass response and a little more efficient.

But I’m pretty sure that they used the same drivers. The big difference was the cabinets. 321s had a raised base and taller. The tweeters are above the mid not next to it.

Pics coming up.

 

[desertrat748]

 

[cimchazz1]

View attachment 1519188 View attachment 1519187

Oh Ohhh, don't slip with the screwdriver!!!!!!! Thanks for the research help.
So that pic there looks like the 1230 I have, I bet the tweeter fits into a "keyhole" like I have. So that means the 1230, U321, and U123 could all have different crossovers and I think 321 and 1230 share same tweeters and mids. Woofers are still a mystery. I'm guessing all listed 45Hz to 17Khz Freq Resp? This info might start to show what the differences were between the 3 12" HED cabs, and show that they were not all the same with different numbers (and wallpaper).

 

[cimchazz1]

Just to compare, my 1230 is 251/2" x 15 1/2" x 11 1/2" deep. The wood is 3/4" thick. Don't know if this is more like the 123 or 321, volumewise.

 

[desertrat748]

Just to compare, my 1230 is 251/2" x 15 1/2" x 11 1/2" deep. The wood is 3/4" thick. Don't know if this is more like the 123 or 321, volumewise.

Exactly the same.

 

[desertrat748]

Oh Ohhh, don't slip with the screwdriver!!!!!!! Thanks for the research help.
So that pic there looks like the 1230 I have, I bet the tweeter fits into a "keyhole" like I have. So that means the 1230, U321, and U123 could all have different crossovers and I think 321 and 1230 share same tweeters and mids. Woofers are still a mystery. I'm guessing all listed 45Hz to 17Khz Freq Resp? This info might start to show what the differences were between the 3 12" HED cabs, and show that they were not all the same with different numbers (and wallpaper).

The 123 and your 1230
Are probably the exact same thing. Cerwin Vega would change the model number for overseas sales and for private companies that would have their own models but exactly the same as the Cerwin Vega line. Just like phono cartridge companies would do.

I bet they cross over the exact same frequency. So what you have is the same as me which is the largest bookshelf model the sold then. It’s rather large and heavy for a bookshelf and it has enough umph to shake it right off the walls.

 

[desertrat748]

Funny thing how you said “don’t slip”. Grandson came over right as you posted that and I tore the dust cover a little bit with my tweeters. But no worries. The horn is so deep and the dome is still fine.

Getting older and less dexterity. Start looking for any of the tweeters that go for any of the older HED 123 or 321, or any with the dust covers. I took a pic of the back of the tweeter and thought I posted it but it didn’t work. Grandkids are leaving now and I will do it again.

 

[desertrat748]

Ps. Don’t worry about the freq response. I think you might not be able to hear past 12-13 kHz. Mine goes up to around that 12khz but was a one time a lot higher up to 17-18 kHz. I never had it checked out until I was doing a lot of field work with the firm I worked for in the early 90s and by then I was in my 30s .

These speakers are versatile and they can deliver excellent sound quality with a little bit of work with setup. Very efficient. You won’t need a subwoofer or a 150 watt amp/receiver and they are quite enjoyable. I ran them with a Fisher 500c and could shake pictures off the wall in 1980. The high end is fine. Not exactly B&W 804s but not $9000 either.

You will like them once you get the CV drivers.

 

[desertrat748]

Here s the tweeter. All round in the back.

 

[cimchazz1]

Ok, thanks, I'm going for it!!

So I'm going to say that a 1230 is a 123 with 321 tweeters (round covered back and screen in cone going through "keyhole" opening), so far. If I thought my C5G tweets had a higher top end, I'd file the holes in a few places to get the triangle through anduse those, probably still be fine with the X-over.

Still don't know what the "correct" woofer is.

Here's the X-over. Hopefully all this will help some other poor fools trying to restore their HED's.

BTW, I probably can't hear over 12KHz anyway after all the years playing in bands.

 

[cimchazz1]

Wow, exactly the tweets I need!!

So they WERE in 123 and 321?? I've seen them for sale pulled from 321. So maybe the keyhole was a way to error proof so the round tweets could be used in all 3 and the triangle tweet would only be used when there was no keyhole. A different crossover was probably used with the triangle tweeter. Now i'm (not) getting it.

Thanks for the pic, that's a big help!!

BTW, better hide your screwdrivers now that the grandkids saw you using them on your speakers!!

 

[desertrat748]

One of the woofers. Looks like a replacement maybe? Vsw-12 looks like August 17 78 or 79? Maybe? Cabinet has a clear date of 1-31-1980. The tag on the back used to say 1980 before it faded. I’m thinking maybe the other one was stamped December ‘79 but I can’t remember that clearly anymore and it has fallen off a long time ago.

 

[desertrat748]

Can you take a pic of the back of the speaker box where the wire connects? Basically the back of the cross over?

My cross over.

 

[cimchazz1]

Wow, great pics, thanks!!Why do you think that's a replacement woofer? I've never seen a VSW12 before, but I've never looked for one I guess. I've been watching the L121. Looks like a bigger voice coil maybe if the magnet bump out is any indication. So maybe I need to look for VSW12? I just bought the tweeters on the bay, I had made an offer on a set out of a pair of 321 awhile ago, just in case. They are round back with screen in horns. I'll get you a back pic in the afternoon, my wife is watching me wondering what I'm doing and I have the speakers hidden. It's harder to sneak new stuff in now that I don't have a basement any more!!

 

[cimchazz1]

While you are in there, which colors go to which speakers? Color wire to positive, right? This guy had the black to positive on the woofers, that had to not sound good. And somewhere I read that these old speakers with fluid filled tweeters (if that's what these are) don't sound the same as they used to because something happens to the fluid inside (don't remember what)

 

[desertrat748]

Wow, great pics, thanks!!Why do you think that's a replacement woofer? I've never seen a VSW12 before, but I've never looked for one I guess. I've been watching the L121. Looks like a bigger voice coil maybe if the magnet bump out is any indication. So maybe I need to look for VSW12? I just bought the tweeters on the bay, I had made an offer on a set out of a pair of 321 awhile ago, just in case. They are round back with screen in horns. I'll get you a back pic in the afternoon, my wife is watching me wondering what I'm doing and I have the speakers hidden. It's harder to sneak new stuff in now that I don't have a basement any more!!

I remember buying the vsw12 off eBay and remember installing it. I had replaced the foam edge on the originals and I messed one up, not getting one perfectly centered. Had it out for a 2nd reform attempt. Was moving at the time and i misplaced it. Looked all over the house for it but to no avail.

I had to get a replacement of eBay. I’m pretty sure that they are 8 ohm woofers. But they used the same 12 inch in a lot of models back then. Sounds just like the other one. Both are fine and balanced.

Just listening to Crosby Stills Nash & Young. Both speakers sound excellent. Woodstock and Sweet Judy Blue Eyes were very enjoyable.

Note, the highs and mids sound best when the tweeters are sitting at ear level. Very life like and plenty of detail. Excellent soundstage. I’m going to make stands for them to bring them up.

Glad you ordered the tweeters. Sell the others. Go find a pair of woofers and your on your way. The HED ones.

While you are in there, which colors go to which speakers? Color wire to positive, right? This guy had the black to positive on the woofers, that had to not sound good. And somewhere I read that these old speakers with fluid filled tweeters (if that's what these are) don't sound the same as they used to because something happens to the fluid inside (don't remember what)

I buttoned all up and don’t want to open them up again. I’m destroying the inserts that hold the screw in securely. Clear plastic insert and I’ve broken 2 already. Maybe I can see in the photos.

 

[cimchazz1]

Just found the VSW12 rebuild kit, it is a 4-ohm w/2" 2-layer voice coil. I think the L121-4 is 8 ohm w/1.5" 4-layer voice coil, very different performance I would think

 

[desertrat748]

While you are in there, which colors go to which speakers? Color wire to positive, right? This guy had the black to positive on the woofers, that had to not sound good. And somewhere I read that these old speakers with fluid filled tweeters (if that's what these are) don't sound the same as they used to because something happens to the fluid inside (don't remember what)

Okay I got it. Red is to the woofers, Yellow to the mids, blue to the tweeter. Black is the ground or Neg terminal , colored to the hot or + side.

You can just tell by where they hook up on the cross over. On the back side you can see the high and mid adjustment varistor.