desertrat748
Super Member
Do a comparison. If there’s a difference, you will be able to tell.
Cerwin Vega speaker help needed
- Thread starter gagecalman
- Start date
Well, picked up the speakers today. They turned out to be a pair of HED 1230. The boxes look fairly good, grills really good, just have to make sure there's no mice living inside.
Not sure what drivers it had originally, but all drivers replaced with Optimus. His father was original owner and he threw away the original speakers because the surrounds were rotted and some salesman at Radio Shack probably told him these would be better.
Tweeters are #40-1218, mids are #40-1030, and havent pulled woofers yet (have to "sneak" the cabs in after the wife leaves for work tomorrow), but they are polypro looking cones, maybe #40-1026 or 1026A? Who knows, maybe they will sound better than original? The frequency ranges look similar to the crossover points, anyway. Hard to compare the CV driver specs when there aren't any. I will probably still put the D5 tweeters in when they arrive and see how it sounds. For some reason, the original frequency range of these cabs was only something like 45Hz to 17KHz. Hell, my crappy 1976 Model 26 did 20Hz -20Khz, don't understand why these shouldn't be able to.
Not sure what drivers it had originally, but all drivers replaced with Optimus. His father was original owner and he threw away the original speakers because the surrounds were rotted and some salesman at Radio Shack probably told him these would be better.
Tweeters are #40-1218, mids are #40-1030, and havent pulled woofers yet (have to "sneak" the cabs in after the wife leaves for work tomorrow), but they are polypro looking cones, maybe #40-1026 or 1026A? Who knows, maybe they will sound better than original? The frequency ranges look similar to the crossover points, anyway. Hard to compare the CV driver specs when there aren't any. I will probably still put the D5 tweeters in when they arrive and see how it sounds. For some reason, the original frequency range of these cabs was only something like 45Hz to 17KHz. Hell, my crappy 1976 Model 26 did 20Hz -20Khz, don't understand why these shouldn't be able to.
desertrat748
Super Member
Most unfortunate to replace those original drivers with RS stuff. Original will sound better as they were designed for the setup crossover and cabinet.
Try getting an original pair of the woofers and tweeters. Then on to the mids. Maybe sell off the RS optimus
What were the original woofers? L121-4 8 ohm?
Not sure what the original tweeters were??? I've seen both the covered and uncovered tweeters used in 123 and 1230???
Anyway, if the woofers were L121-4, those are easy to find. And I have a pair of the NOS Cerwin Vega D 5 G #9027 tweeters on the way. If those are not correct, I will get the correct ones.
I'm guessing the crossovers will need service, if there's any electrolytics..
Not sure what the original tweeters were??? I've seen both the covered and uncovered tweeters used in 123 and 1230???
Anyway, if the woofers were L121-4, those are easy to find. And I have a pair of the NOS Cerwin Vega D 5 G #9027 tweeters on the way. If those are not correct, I will get the correct ones.
I'm guessing the crossovers will need service, if there's any electrolytics..
desertrat748
Super Member
I would have to pull mine out to see what they were, but any of the 12” from U 123 or 321, should work fine in there. Also, the D5 G tweeters should be fine. Much better than the RS optimus. I had the covered tweeters and used them for a replacement. Worked perfectly for u123 s.
Definitely take a look at the crossovers. Can measure to see if you have to replace something.
Definitely take a look at the crossovers. Can measure to see if you have to replace something.
What speaker is the model 26?
Back in the day, they rated speakers dishonestly. Not a true + or - 3db rating. If the speaker made any sound at all at the frequency extremes, that's how it got rated.
desertrat748
Super Member
You will be happy with the Cerwin Vega replacement. Doesn’t really matter much what the listed frequency response was for the RS, it’s all about the original design that was made for your cabinet. CV tried hard back in late 70s and 80s to make them decent.
desertrat748
Super Member
You may have to tilt your tweeters to clear the posts as you try and get them inside the cabinet. I’m not sure what the original models were but the U123 s are the same as your 1230 s. As well as the 321 models. I believe certain Vega sold many models that were actually the same just a different number or model number used to sell to private companies were overseas or a big Electronic warehouse Type stores. But they all will work and work very well and your cabinets.
desertrat748
Super Member
Maybe take a couple of pictures and post them up so we can see what you are dealing with? That would be helpful.
pics of "keyhole" and triangle under magnet. That appears to be a tweeter horn that was also used on tweeters with a backplate holding down the magnet with screws thru the triangle's holes. This style tweeter will not fit in the cab with the keyhole (or at least I couldn't get it to)
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desertrat748
Super Member
I’m sorry but I’m confused Cim. It seems like it should fit with no trouble. If it’s catching on the posts, try putting it at an angle with the posts going in first then tilting it so the rest will go inside.
I don’t remember how they could hang up. From what you have pictured, it seems that it would fit.
I don’t remember how they could hang up. From what you have pictured, it seems that it would fit.
Well, I'll try again. So, I read that all these HED have a frequency response of 45-17000. Isn't that noticeable? How is that possible with a tweeter that has a spec of 4000-20KHz (C5G)? I would think the crossover and cab would have zero influence on the high end of the tweeter? And why the 45Hz? I'm guessing that could be cab related, since I think L121 are used in cabs that go down to 30Hz. Isn't that missing low frequency noticeable? Is there a way to get 30-20k from these? Just trying to learn.
desertrat748
Super Member
The crossover will have some effect overall. The woofer I believe crosses over quite high on this one , I can’t remember exactly where but something like 1200 Hz where the midrange takes over up to something like 4kHz, and from there the tweeter goes on to the 17khz range where it rolls off.
Don’t hold me to exact specs because I have had my pair since 1980 -1981. They will deliver if you get them set up correctly.
They are very responsive to placement. I have had them in a vacant house with tile floors and they sounded terrible. Placed to close to a wall and in a corner the bass can be overwhelming.
If you google Cerwin Vega you can find the specs for the 123 Hed. I’m pretty sure that it’s on vinyl engine.
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desertrat748
Super Member
And I guess I misread that and now feel bad about that reply. No, the listed freq range isn’t noticeable. Actually I’m impressed by their sound. I’m thinking maybe that’s where the 123s are within 3dB response. And yes you will hear something below the 45 hz and I’m sure you can get above the 17khz but it does roll off. I remember seeing the response graph and they definitely rolled off at both ends. Crossovers definitely have some effect with output and performance.
From what I hear with mine, the Cerwins do a great job down low and I really like the mid to upper highs. I’m also impressed with vocals and these seem to handle male vocals quite well w/o missing out on higher female vocals.
Placement is key with these. You may have to experiment a bit. A few inches of placement difference can make a difference.
They also offer the adjustable treble and midrange on the back. A little bit of work and you will have enjoyable set of speakers. A lot of people say that they are “party”’speakers or only good for rock n roll. Not true imho. I’m using a pair daily and they don’t take a lot of power. A 80-100 watt amp or receiver does a great job.
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Thanks for the clarification. I am borderline on whether I want to restore them or not, after all the bad things I read about them. I have 40 bucks into these so far. I can still give them away and not feel bad. I can put another $250 into them (woofers, tweeters, mids) to restore them to original, or look for something else. Not sure now that they are worth it, after all the posts I've read.
I originally started out looking for Cerwin Vega D5's or Klipsch KG4's and got sidetracked. They are going in a large bookshelf.
Since I don't have the money or time to buy and listen to every speaker to find the one I like best, I read the forums to get a consensus on what might be best. I am starting with Cerwin Vega beause when I bought my Model 26 back in the '70's, they were the best sounding set of speakers I was shown for under $500/pair and they had "lifetime" warranty. I still like the sound from those 26's.
So, anyhow, I tried again with those tweeters and couldn't do it. Here's a few pics. I think I need the tweeters without the "plastic triangle" on the back.
I originally started out looking for Cerwin Vega D5's or Klipsch KG4's and got sidetracked. They are going in a large bookshelf.
Since I don't have the money or time to buy and listen to every speaker to find the one I like best, I read the forums to get a consensus on what might be best. I am starting with Cerwin Vega beause when I bought my Model 26 back in the '70's, they were the best sounding set of speakers I was shown for under $500/pair and they had "lifetime" warranty. I still like the sound from those 26's.
So, anyhow, I tried again with those tweeters and couldn't do it. Here's a few pics. I think I need the tweeters without the "plastic triangle" on the back.
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desertrat748
Super Member
Ok I see the triangle now. Yes, you need the ones with the round back. Mine have bigger magnets on the back but are round. I couldn't see them before. For bookshelf, I don't think you can get anything better than the 123 models. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on them but if you liked them back in the day, you are going to like them now. To me, some comparable sound that I also like are 70 -80s era Advents, JBL, Altecs, some others. I liked the look, the cabinets of old Sansui, but they couldn't produce . I never liked any of the Polk Audio or the poly cone Infinity. The ones that were in my price range.
Take a moment or two and look for some Cerwin drivers or some similar models on Craig's list or pawn shops. My brother scored a pair of CW 10 in woofers in excellent shape for under $150/pair. He put them in the garage or back porch while he's working outside. If you find ones that need to be re-foamed, you can get them cheaper. I bought a pair of tweeters for $30 just a few years back. I also bought a 12in woofer (CV) for $40. You can find them for reasonable if you are patient.
Ahhh, yes, they say patience is a virtue, but it's not one of mine, especially as I get older and there is less time in front of me than behind me.From all my minutes of research up to now, the U321 drivers are more like the 1230 than the U123's. Still curious which woofers they used in 1230, could also be like U321? I think I know which tweets and mids I need if I want to keep it original.
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