Confusion on speaker stands versus floor standing

[Akustic]

Seems like you've haven't yet experienced the damping effect of for example a rubber mat on a turtable platter or a self-adhesive bitumen sheet at the bottom of kitchen basin. Maybe you should try that and see, how it fits to your theory.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Or, are you asking me why did the sound frequency of the sink change ??

 

[lini]

Or, are you asking me why did the sound frequency of the sink change ??

No, of course not - as that should be pretty obvious anyway.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Akustic]

No, of course not - as that should be pretty obvious anyway.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

??? You thought that perhaps I didn't understand it ??
The mat isolates/decouples the motor and platter vibration from the stylus ..

Vibration diffuses into mass ..
It's connection dependent ... The harder you push the better it's connected.

Spikes on your turntable could perhaps provide a better path in to whatever the turntable is sitting on and therefore in to more mass ..
That may reduce resonances in the turntable .. That may be good also ,,
That's why I put spikes on my turntable, and set it on a board that was laying on sand in a box, and and set the sandbox on the shelf.

It's certainly not easy to isolate a stylus .. It would probably be better to lay a slab of granite on that sand of mine.

 

[Akustic]

And what's the benefit of that?

The benefit of mass loading is ..

Vibration is a connection dependent diffusion into mass ..
The harder that you push the better the better the connection .. as in more mass connected ..

It can't be and isn't "absorbed"...

 

[sanford12]

I went from high carbon steel to oxygen free copper spikes, The difference was amazing.

 

[Bill Ferris]

 

[GordonW]

Read the thread and answer the questions that I posed ..

Before you do answer this ...

I'm at the intersection waiting .. the vehicle in the left turn lane of the cross street has a monster subwoofer booming ,,
His car is rattling .. my car is rattling and my steering wheel is vibrating in time to his music .. he's literally rattling all of the cars at the intersection ..

Answer this ..
If he sets his woofer box on a pillow will all of the rattling and vibrations stop ??

Some of it will stop, if the woofer box was on damping material. .

If he were to apply damping material to the walls of this car (Dynamat is made for this purpose), more of it would stop.

Nothing is going to stop the energy from the direct sound transmission from the woofers, to your car. And there's no reason to do that anyway, in any audio application. It completely defeats the purpose of having a loudspeaker in the first place.

 

[GordonW]

Respects ..

I was referring to audible frequencies .. not ultrasonic .. and driver friction certainly creates heat ..
What I'm pointing at is vibration conductance and conduction .. soft materials typically don't conduct vibration .. they're non-conductors of audible vibration.
They're not absorbing vibration anymore than rubber is absorbing electricity ..

They're not absorbing the vibration .. they simply don't conduct it in the first place .. so they're great decouplers.
Obviously some level of energy can turn them into a conductor .. siesmometers record infrasonic vibration in sand and some level of voltage will make it through rubber ..

To the extent that a panel can be manufactured to reduce vibration in the first place it only makes sense to use it ..
But most speakers are constructed of materials that do conduct vibration ..
The panels are vibrating .. with the movements of the drivers and acoustic coupling.
That vibration can be channeled through a conductive path but it can't be channeled or absorbed through a non-conductor ..

First off- the basic properties of the conversion of sound energy to heat, are independent of frequency. It is only that the principles that govern sound transmission, are such that lower frequencies require larger radiating areas (and larger enclosures behind) to produce the same transducer efficiency (acoustic power out vs. electrical power in) than high frequencies. Nothing is different about the basic behavior of "ultrasonic", "audible" or "infrasonic" sound, otherwise.

Secondly- any material that has sonic energy impinging on it, is doing one of three things:

- Reflecting it
- transmitting it
- absorbing it

If the energy is not being reflected back,, and it's not transmitting it to the other side- then it, by definition, is absorbing it.

Anything other would be violating the three laws of thermodynamics. And there's a reason they're called LAWS. Nothing in the known universe operates outside the three laws of thermodynamics.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Akustic]

First off- the basic properties of the conversion of sound energy to heat, are independent of frequency. It is only that the principles that govern sound transmission, are such that lower frequencies require larger radiating areas (and larger enclosures behind) to produce the same transducer efficiency (acoustic power out vs. electrical power in) than high frequencies. Nothing is different about the basic behavior of "ultrasonic", "audible" or "infrasonic" sound, otherwise.

Secondly- any material that has sonic energy impinging on it, is doing one of three things:

- Reflecting it
- transmitting it
- absorbing it

If the energy is not being reflected back,, and it's not transmitting it to the other side- then it, by definition, is absorbing it.

Anything other would be violating the three laws of thermodynamics. And there's a reason they're called LAWS. Nothing in the known universe operates outside the three laws of thermodynamics.

Regards,
Gordon.

That's what I'm saying ..

Except that nothing but mass can "absorb" it ..
Reflection and conduction are a function of surface tension and connection/coupling ..

"Absorbent" materials simply lack surface tension .. they're not absorbing it .. they can't conduct or reflect.
Essentially they're interfering with resonances and creating diffuse paths into mass .

 

[Akustic]

Nothing is going to stop the energy from the direct sound transmission from the woofers, to your car. And there's no reason to do that anyway, in any audio application. It completely defeats the purpose of having a loudspeaker in the first place.

If I could like this statement two times I definitely would ..
But I definitely like it when that guy drives off to vibrate something else ..

 

[Akustic]

Vibramat can and does change the resonant frequencies of the box by modifying it's surface tension, but it can't, and isn't "absorbing" that woofers low frequency transmissions that are powerful enough to rattle all of the cars at an intersection ...

All you can do is send that guy down the road far enough that distance and mass will overcome his vibrating rattle ...

 

[Akustic]

Vibration is kinetic energy dissipating into mass ..

It lacks sufficient energy input to simultaneously dissipate any substantial amount of heat ..
Products like Sorbothane (which are mostly non-conductors of kinetic energy) can convert a small quantity of energy into heat ..

Heat dissipation is dependent on friction and rate of input ..

 

[Akustic]

The reason that the bouncing spring explanation for vibration doesn't work is because it's an explanation of elasticity .. eventually the spring stretches ..
It's not an explanation of an "active" kinetic energy transmission and dissipation ..
i.e. .. You hit that piece of steel sheet with a hammer and it's making noise as it vibrates .. there was an active kinetic input when you swung that hammer ..

Speakers are a source of continuing active kinetic input ..