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Crown; a victim of unfair generalization?

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I've been into HiFi my whole life and have also worked in sound reinforcement. I've never had a Crown in my home rig, but the only reason I'd shy away from one for home use is possible fan noise (depending on the model). I'd also think that, even with fan-cooled models, you'd have to be pushing one pretty hard in your living room to heat it up to where the fans came on. I've heard many REALLY good sounding rigs running Crown. Then again, I've also heard other sound engineers say things like, "That system sounds too HiFi" with obvious disdain, so whatever that means might figure into the equation somehow.
 
Back in the 1974 I bought a Crown IC150 preamp and a pair of mono-strapped Crown DC300A (with additional factory heat sinks), Yamaha NS1000M speakers. Sounded very good!
Eventually, one amp gave out and I went to DC300A in stereo mode, abouit a year after it quit as well.
They ran fine for 20+ years though, should have had first failure repaired before second failure occurred.
Who knows I might still have them if I'd gotten first repaired before second failed.
 
I have not personally heard the digital crown amps but I've heard good things about them. Run a lot cooler and require less power.

I had a PA with Micro-Tech 1200's feeding JBL mains and they were not necessarily warm, just natural, non fatiguing sounding.
Never strained of lacking, just reliable workhorses that fit the JBL's power consumption perfectly.
Ashly crossovers into Crown amps into JBL speakers is a great combination.

Keep in mind this was a 5000 watt mains system not a home stereo setup.
 
I have used plenty of Crown Com-Tech's but mostly for 70 volt distributed sound systems. I have used them for a little bit in my personal system and like most all SS amps they sound pretty much the same as the other amps. The Com Techs are no longer supported by Crown , and they were sold if I recall as the 210, 410, and 810 1600. pretty much the amperage out put. They claim to be stable under any load, and I did use them on some of my Infinities with no problem. But I didn't like the results with my pair of Kappa 9's kind of a bit bright on the upper end for my taste.
 
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BMWCCA said:
Can't answer the Com-Tech questions but, since I'm heavily quoted in the opening posts in this thread, I can update to say my JBL 4345s love running bi-amped with Crown PS400 and PS200. Haven't yet had the chance to try the Studio Reference-II I acquired for my JBL 250tis but I have high hopes for it. I have several D45s, D75As and all versions of the D-series-II amps but the PS are my favorites and in use every day. I carry a D75A around in my car in case I come across a pair of speakers I want to audition. And amp and a phone is all I need.
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I see. Interesting. I wonder how JBL titanium domed loudspeakers would sound with Crown driving them.

  1. When driven by crisp-sounding Yamaha RX-V663 (unlike vintage "natural sound" Yamaha, modern Yamaha AV receivers are often associated with brightness and details), JBL 120Tis and L20Ts tend to be fatiguing in the long run. The sound is crisp and punchy, with lots of details, but quite fatiguing for long listening.
  2. When driven by warmer and darker sounding amps, like Rotel RB-985, the sound becomes smoother and less fatiguing. However, such amp tends to veil the sound, reducing details and clarity.
  3. So far, Sansui AU-7900 is the best-sounding amp to drive JBL titanium series --at least among the amps I've ever tried. JBL 120 Tis and L20Ts sounds very clear, crisp, and detailed, but not fatiguing at all. They do sound bright, but airy-bright instead of analytical bright. The entire sound feels very open and very organic, which may contribute to the lack of listening fatigue.

To which amp does Crown sound the closest?


FrostEOne said:
Back in the 1974 I bought a Crown IC150 preamp and a pair of mono-strapped Crown DC300A (with additional factory heat sinks), Yamaha NS1000M speakers. Sounded very good!
Eventually, one amp gave out and I went to DC300A in stereo mode, abouit a year after it quit as well.
They ran fine for 20+ years though, should have had first failure repaired before second failure occurred.
Who knows I might still have them if I'd gotten first repaired before second failed.
Click to expand...
Wait, so Crown DC300A is mono-strapped. IIRC Crown DC300A is never explicitly mentioned to be able to be mono-strapped, yet it can.

So is it true that all --or at least most-- pro amp can be mono-strapped (parallel mono) despite not explicitly stated as such?

Can you mono-strap Crown D75? How about the modern Crown XLS 1002?
 
Great 'summary' post - ain't research fun?
For me, it takes a lot of research to narrow down which Crowns to look at more closely, esp when older ones are included...no doubt others with more actual experience will chip in.
The current line up is pretty confusing to me, with N (networked) versions and Audio Architect to consider as well (ala M2).
Some have digital DSP, some apparently have analog DSP??

I ended up choosing the D75 for the M/HF, and the next day saw a local post on CL for a D75A (US made!) for cheap!
That amp sure sounds sweet on those horns and 077s, I'll say, and runs dead quiet (no fans)...but does not like being stacked on top of other hot amps (I solved by staggering the stack however).
The less pricey Crowns don't seem to have spectacular specs....so be sure to check closely.
OTOH, the 1502 XLS I'm running for the subwoofer sure seems 'competent' shall we say?
Someday I'd like to swap the Bryston 3BNRB for that Crown (for woofers) and see if I can tell any differences...but not high on my list of priorities.
 
I used Crown amps from 1973 or 4 to 2008 as I remember without looking up invoices. Two and then three DC-300'A's adding eventually two more D150'a's and a P2sa replacing one of the 300A's . All of them needed to be totally rebuilt after each 10 years of service which Crown did at no charge accept for return shipping. Each time I would get a plastic bag with small signal caps and transistors by the scores, etc. I never had to have an out transistor replaced or big filter caps. Signal diodes and one or two IC as I remember. When they were all traded in upon my return to totally Mac amps the Crowns didn't meet specs not a one. Especially above 10 KHZ below 8 ohms. The 150's did a better job at HF than the 300's and the P2sa was the best , but I used it for woofers. That said I have always owned at least one Mac amp since 1962. My 2505 which is still working like a charm is pushing 47 or 8 years old.

Early Mac SS amps and my speakers bi- amped and eventually tri-amped with Celestion super tweeters just didn't get along with the woofers. Crown amps with their austere bass were a better choice. The MC 7200 when first on the Market proved to me to be a much better amp, but the Crowns were paid for and I had family expenses. I retired in 04 and with selling some property in California I would never use. We upgraded the house, the hifi system, etc. The midrange tweeter and super tweeters really improved using a Mac 207 power in a tri amped configuration using electronic crossovers. And by up grading my HT processor almost two years ago the fast bass has returned. Not quite as dry,below 100 hz but oh so much more revealing up to the crossover point. A win win for sure. I loved the 207 so much I added another to replace my 206, which I now use for remote speakers, etc. The little 2505 still pushes one set of electrostatic headphones and on occasion has other duties. I liked my Crowns, they filled my needs and by Crown picking up the repair bills I had no real excuse to change. If they haddn't, I guess I would have had 3 MC 7200's and 2 MC 7100's. Every one thinks wow a DC 300a can put out 300 watts across 4 ohms well it can't and the power really drops off below 2.5 ohms. Look and see what a MC 7200 can put out at 2 ohms. Over 500. That's scary. The little 7100 over 300 watts. So if you are thinking about an alternative to Crowns, you know what I would recommend. If you will look at the specs for a Crown amps, they have very little peak capability even for a very short 10 millisec burst. When the latest Mac amps have double the power available for a 40 millisec burst. Now we all use to complain about autoformers, but the new ones will allow Mac amps to meet specs at more than full power with a load 1/2 of the rating of the tap. So if you have speakers that are rated 8 ohms and dip close to 3 ohms, a big no no with a tube amp, the new Mac SS amps just breeze along like our Crown amps did but with going into apoplexy in the highs. 9.jpg DSN_0014.jpg ..You notice I still have my two Crown EQ-2's.
 
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I have run a Crown XLS 2500 into my bi-amped ESS AMT-1 Towers (woofers) for several years and could not be happier. Great SQ, reliable, silent and runs cool. I was never a fan of the DC-300 or 150, back in the seventies. I have owned several "legendary" power amps over the years. The Crown XLS is as good, if not better.

There are reviews for the XLS Series out there. Remembering that reviewers often can be bought and others bravely share their discoveries. YMMV

When a cost effective product appears on the market, competitors have a financial motivation to relegate the reviews to the darkest corners of the web. If you are selling an amplifier for 10X or even 100X the price, it behooves competitors to bury favorable reviews of the more affordable competition. Websites posting these favorable reviews, risk losing valuable ad revenue that is priced into the more expensive components.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ivecore.html&usg=AOvVaw2XJMGhAAuuywUU18YMe0ZY

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ivecore.html&usg=AOvVaw2XJMGhAAuuywUU18YMe0ZY
 
I have a com-tech 800 that still looks fresh out of the box, but I've had it for many years. It was running with a pair of L100t3 speakers and a decent dac(w/internal volume control) for a few weeks. This system wasn't doing anything wrong to my ears and I could easily listen for an extended period.
It was used briefly with a pair of L250 and it didn't sound bad there either. l've never been able to get the fan to kick in or I couldn't hear it running.

I figure that quite a few of the com-techs have been well used and probably abused by now. There is a 1600 here that doesn't look all that great inside or out and doesn't sound all that great either. Still does a very good job of powering subwoofers and any smaller bridged com-tech can be put to good use for this.
The BB or FX input modules are the least complex and possibly have the shortest signal path.
 
I'm not familiar with many of these models but I use a trio of K2's on some hyper sensitive horn speakers (each speaker actively/vertically biamped) and the third K2 is bridged to my Danley DTS-10. (I WOULD have just run each channel to each driver individually had I known in the beginning when I ran the wires, that the Danley would end up there)

Anyways.... zero fan noise (no fans on the K series), gains dialed down to maybe 25% so zero hiss/nose and they sound good.

Cut/painted a piece of 2x6 pine, screwed the amp to them and have them sitting vertically on top of the speaker, behind the top horn so they are also out of the way both physically and visually.

Works (and sounds) like a charm and the best part.... hidden from the wife's eyes (she appreciates that)
 

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Using an XLS 2000 with my Infinity RS II's, which supposedly drop down close to 2 ohms.
I'm happy, sounds good and the amp doesn't struggle with the possibly difficult load.
The fan in my Crown does run a lot, I even called Crown shortly after purchase and they said it was normal.
But it is so quiet unless I have the volume at zero and am standing within a foot or two of the amp I can't hear it.
Paid $250 for it brand new, on sale when the XXX2 series came out. Tremendous power for the dollar IMO.
 
If your interested in the best Crown for home or studio use, I think their Studio Reference model was their highest rated model.

I know the Com Techs are tough, speaker loads are not a problem, but lightning spikes they don't like. Had to replace many of them here in Florida due to our common thunder storms. The Com Techs were very commonly used in commercial applications due to their 70 volt taps. In the last decade Crown has seemed to lose favor with the commercial audio business as QSC has been very aggressively taking over the once coveted spot by Crown in the more upper end market and TOA in the lower end. I used to use QSC once in a while but early on we always made fun of them, they didn't hold up well. Funny how that works, Crown dropped the Com Tech line, and started using the CH2 model's and they were junk while QSC continued to improve their line.

I will say I have not been in the business in the last few years so things might have changed some since then.
 
I have always regarded Crown for many years, as good, common sense, durable, reliable and well built equipment. Neutral sounding, doesn't add or take away anything. No nonsense, professional grade. Reliable as an anvil. For my needs, a D 75A is good enough.
 
70s era amps like the DC300A and D-150 (owned one back in the day) were dreadful sounding at the top with their poor first generation Fairchild ua739 op amp front end running the amp in class B. Well deserved lack of praise. They did, however, work fine on woofers. The very best system I heard circa ‘74 was tri-amplified Magneplanar Tympani IIIs using Audio Research D76s on mid/tweeter and DC300A on woofer panels.

Fast forward to today’s XLS series of switchers. Great midrange and while the top end isn’t fingernails-on-a-chaulkboard harsh like models of yore , upper harmonic are missing in action. Like a bird slamming into a glass wall, the overtones of percussion simply aren’t there.

I replaced an XLS1500 with a Hypex Ncore switcher which has much better and more natural sounding top end response.

Go listen for yourself why they suffer challenges.
 
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I have a D75, D150a, and PSA-2. The D75 sounds best a little before the IOC lights come on. Stayed clean and tight. I use it with a pair of JBL 4312's. My PSA 2 runs 2 pair of KEF 104aB reference monitors running as a 16 ohm load. Sounds very clean, precise and with detail and depth. The bottom end is very tight which is what the KEFs' need.
 
E-Stat said:
70s era amps like the DC300A and D-150 (owned one back in the day) were dreadful sounding at the top with their poor first generation Fairchild ua739 op amp front end running the amp in class B. Well deserved lack of praise.
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I replaced a Fisher SA1000 with a brand-new Crown D150 (pre-A, no faceplate version) back around 1972 paired with a McIntosh C20 running a pair of JBL 030 with the 075 ring-radiator many claim to be harsh and beamy. I enjoyed these for a decade before replacing the Crown with a D150A-II and moving the D150 to a new pair of L112s around 1982 where it still resides today sounding fine with the 044 tweeters and the C20. Eventually I replaced the D150A-II with a DC300A-II and now run PS200 and PS400 biamped with JBL 4345s with the ultra-high-frequency 2405 drivers. None of these sound "dreadful" but to the contrary all have been very musical while remaining revealing on bad recordings, and maybe that's what "dreadful" implies. I have no experience with the newer "lightweight" Crowns. I'm old and quite satisfied with the D-type amps and their ilk.

I've often said it before but when I purchased my first Crown, my dealer was a McIntosh and JBL dealer (among other brands) who happily compared Crown to the Mac amps and even invited me to bring my Crown to the Mac Clinics where Dave O'Brien commented on the lack of distortion exhibited by the Crown even when driven beyond its rated power capacity. Granted, everyone's experience (and ears) are different, and this is just to reaffirm my satisfaction with Crown in answer to the topic of this thread.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I have used plenty of Crown Com-Tech's but mostly for 70 volt distributed sound systems. I have used them for a little bit in my personal system and like most all SS amps they sound pretty much the same as the other amps. The Com Techs are no longer supported by Crown , and they were sold if I recall as the 210, 410, and 810 1600. pretty much the amperage out put. They claim to be stable under any load, and I did use them on some of my Infinities with no problem. But I didn't like the results with my pair of Kappa 9's kind of a bit bright on the upper end for my taste.
Click to expand...
grey said:
I have a com-tech 800 that still looks fresh out of the box, but I've had it for many years. It was running with a pair of L100t3 speakers and a decent dac(w/internal volume control) for a few weeks. This system wasn't doing anything wrong to my ears and I could easily listen for an extended period.
It was used briefly with a pair of L250 and it didn't sound bad there either. l've never been able to get the fan to kick in or I couldn't hear it running.

I figure that quite a few of the com-techs have been well used and probably abused by now. There is a 1600 here that doesn't look all that great inside or out and doesn't sound all that great either. Still does a very good job of powering subwoofers and any smaller bridged com-tech can be put to good use for this.
The BB or FX input modules are the least complex and possibly have the shortest signal path.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info on Crown Com-Tech series. They are indeed interesting, especially since they can be set for parallel-mono (strapping), which increases current, which is needed for my current-hungry B&W DM302s.

Anyway, is it true that pro power amp has lower input sensitivity than home audio amps? What module needed to use pro power amps in home audio setup?
 
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