Crown; a victim of unfair generalization?

[grey]

Thank you for the info on Crown Com-Tech series. They are indeed interesting, especially since they can be set for parallel-mono (strapping), which increases current, which is needed for my current-hungry B&W DM302s.

Anyway, is it true that pro power amp has lower input sensitivity than home audio amps? What module needed to use pro power amps in home audio setup?

You will need one amp for each speaker in bridge/parallel modes. You're contemplating a purchase of two 210 units?
A bigger amp would be my preferred path over bridging/parallel for upper frequencies. For example, I measured a slight DC offset on both channels of a random amplifier. When bridged, the resulting offset was the sum of both. You can expect the same thing to happen with a small amount of distortion on each channel.

These have a selectable input sensitivity that is accessible when the input module is removed.
If you are using rca cables, you can cut one end off and wire it directly to the BB (barrier block)module. You would need an rca to XLR cable to use the FX module.
One of them had a weird programmable module installed and I had Crown send me a basic FX. Not sure if I could have bypassed all the crap on that board with the array of dip switches that it had on it. Just something to look out for as I'm not sure if you can still buy these direct.

These are what they are.....built to be basic and reliable workhorses.

 

[steven94]

Thank you for the info on Crown Com-Tech series. They are indeed interesting, especially since they can be set for parallel-mono (strapping), which increases current, which is needed for my current-hungry B&W DM302s.

Anyway, is it true that pro power amp has lower input sensitivity than home audio amps? What module needed to use pro power amps in home audio setup?

There is another thread on audio circle titled Crown xls for the rest of us. on page 80 (yes Page 80) they talk a little about a Rolls Promatch MB 15B. It is made just for this situation RCA to XLR and outputs to 1.4 volts at a very good price. I have been thinking of getting a XLS 1502, if I do I would probroly go this way Good Luck

 

[JoeESP9]

There is another thread on audio circle titled Crown xls for the rest of us. on page 80 (yes Page 80) they talk a little about a Rolls Promatch MB 15B. It is made just for this situation RCA to XLR and outputs to 1.4 volts at a very good price. I have been thinking of getting a XLS 1502, if I do I would probroly go this way Good Luck

Such a gadget is totally unnecessary with an XLS series amplifier. Adjustable input sensitivity and RCA inputs are standard on all current XLS series amplifiers from Crown.

 

[Hyperion]

The discussion about the IC150A has finished - so I'm late to the party, but thought this review might be of interest.

 

[goodolpg]

Such a gadget is totally unnecessary with an XLS series amplifier. Adjustable input sensitivity and RCA inputs are standard on all current XLS series amplifiers from Crown.

That is one feature that strongly made me consider the XLS amp, the RCA inputs.
Same for my ART EQ's, they also have RCA inputs even though they might be considered "pro" gear.

 

[E-Stat]

Thank you for the info on Crown Com-Tech series. They are indeed interesting, especially since they can be set for parallel-mono (strapping), which increases current, which is needed for my current-hungry B&W DM302s

You'll find tons of high current high fidelity amplifiers that have no need to bridge output. Nor have any need for protection circuitry.

Look to most anything Nelson Pass has ever produced. From day one, Threshold and now Pass Lab amps have no difficulty driving the most challenging reactive loads.

 

[E-Stat]

The discussion about the IC150A has finished - so I'm late to the party, but thought this review might be of interest.

That was most certainly the most horrible sounding component I've ever heard. Dealers were required to show them even if they quite literally advised customer to not buy them. Such was the case when I purchased my D150. I ended up with a far better sounding H-K Citation 11 instead .

Click here for the funniest story from a (different) dealer I've ever heard.

 

[E-Stat]

None of these sound "dreadful" but to the contrary all have been very musical while remaining revealing on bad recordings, and maybe that's what "dreadful" implies.

It all depends upon your point of reference. The first amp that replaced the Crown was an Audire Model One in '76. That was the era of Frank Van Alstine's double Dyna 400 with an external capacitor bank and I replicated that with the Audire. Boosted the 20k uF power supply to 80k uF which improved dynamics and resolution. Much better. The next was a Threshold Stasis 3 in '81. That was a step better still that I found far superior when your reference is the sound of live, unamplified music - as opposed to low numbers on a chart.

... my dealer was a McIntosh and JBL dealer (among other brands) who happily compared Crown to the Mac amps and even invited me to bring my Crown to the Mac Clinics where Dave O'Brien commented on the lack of distortion exhibited by the Crown even when driven beyond its rated power capacity.

Speaking of which, I remember taking an AR Integrated to a Mac clinic circa '73 or so with Dave at the wheel and provided me with a most impressive looking chart validating the *low* THD of that amp.

It still sounded horrible at low levels.

That was a valuable learning lesson to me that holds true today. THD is a virtually useless metric to convey any correlation as to how an amplifier sounds. Low THD is very easy to achieve - just dial in tons of corrective feedback to make the numbers on paper look better.

Such never sounds real to these and other ears since that approach generates copious amounts of high order distortion components. Metrics generated via uncorrelated sine waves have little to do with dynamically changing harmonically rich waveforms, aka music.

Reliable, however, the D150 was. I used mine driving double Advents with Microstatic tweeters in the 1974 Miss RHS pageant at high school for playing music with some of the contestants. I had to set up under a covered table and inadvertently shorted the leads with a screwdriver when the amp was powered up. After shutting it down and detaching the screwdriver from the post, the amp came back up with nary a problem. The show went on!

 

[damacman]

All this talk of high current amplifiers is really misleading. High current amplifiers are really nothing more than amplifiers which can maintain voltage into reactive loads.

 

[EngineerNate]

I wouldn't worry too much about the input sensitivity. You'll be able to drive them plenty loud with consumer gear.

A lot of pro gear uses a slightly higher line level spec than most home gear but it isn't different enough to cause problems in most cases.

 

[Bill Ferris]

Agreed. The D series amplifiers for me are always fine when in good order. But they tell the truth about your sources and recordings. And reliable and faithful.

 

[BMWCCA]

It all depends upon your point of reference. . . . That was a step better still that I found far superior when your reference is the sound of live, unamplified music - as opposed to low numbers on a chart.

Some systems or source material can sound better with a blanket draped over the speakers, too! Crown has been the choice for my ears since 1972 even though I also continue to own lots of other amps from Adcom to Urei. That's as close to A-to-Z I can get! The ones I no longer own include Amber and Fisher, to the best of my recollection. Currently stashed away are various Adcom, Carver, JBL/Urei, Soundcraftsmen, Parasound, and I'm sure some others.

 

[E-Stat]

Crown has been the choice or my ears since 1972...

To each his own. I find the performance envelope has changed since then...

 

[BMWCCA]

To each his own. I find the performance envelope has changed since then...

View attachment 1241950

I suppose if you don't like the direct-connection feel of a good 2002. Certainly the new M2 is a wonderful product and I'm anxiously awaiting my first M2 Competition, but it won't replace the visceral connection the 2002tii has produced since my first drive in one. And I can enjoy either, whenever I want to!

Guess which one uses electronic audio as enhancement for the driver's experience?

On certain tracks, that 135hp might just prove faster than 400 in a bloated body.

I remember seeing one take a 427 Cobra at Summit Point Raceway once upon a time!

Doesn't this look like fun??

 

[E-Stat]

I suppose if you don't like the direct-connection feel of a good 2002.

What I prefer is the significantly higher levels of cornering, acceleration, improved braking and reduced NVH.

As with audio I prefer significantly higher levels of transparency, dynamics, improved soundstaging and lack of harshness at the top.

 

[BMWCCA]

What I prefer is the significantly higher levels of cornering, acceleration, improved braking and reduced NVH.

As with audio I prefer significantly higher levels of transparency, dynamics, improved soundstaging and lack of harshness at the top.

I think you've stretched the metaphor about as far as you can. Why not compare the sound of a Stradivarius to a newly made instrument? Do you think Yo-Yo Ma would sound better on a newly minted cello from Korea or his Italian instrument made in the 1700's? What's your thought about those different "performance envelopes" and how they've changed over time?

 

[E-Stat]

I think you've stretched the metaphor about as far as you can.

The good news for us is that engineers across all facets of audio gear have learned how to improve performance in virtually every way.

Why not compare the sound of a Stradivarius to a newly made instrument? Do you think Yo-Yo Ma would sound better on a newly minted cello from Korea or his Italian instrument made in the 1700's? What's your thought about those different "performance envelopes" and how they've changed over time?

The technology of what is essentially furniture hasn't changed radically over the past several centuries.

 

[restorer-john]

Doesn't this look like fun??

That absolutely looks like ball-tearing fun! Just like I drove behind a BRG Mini Cooper (with historic plates) on a special trailer yesterday. It'd clearly been to either a concourse or possibly a track meet someplace. What awesome fun those cars are.

Modern cars are like AVRs to me- too much crap you don't need and too little connection to the source (the road).

 

[BMWCCA]

The good news for us is that engineers across all facets of audio gear have learned how to improve performance in virtually every way.

I guess I should have asked: Have you ever driven a BMW 2002tii or, for that matter, an M2? How do you define "performance"? Is it getting more horsepower out of less displacement, more watts with less weight? Of is it in sound quality or the fun of driving?

The technology of what is essentially furniture hasn't changed radically over the past several centuries.

And, really, neither has the technology of sound, unless you count digital media, more channels, more money? Sound reproduction is supposed to do just that; reproduce the live performance or the recording with as much accuracy as possible given we're reducing it to small boxes in our living rooms. I happen to like the big boxes that are my speakers and the big heavy amps that drive them. Listening to a great recording on my 60-year-old JBLs driven by their 40-year-old Crown amps is just as stirring as it was when I first plugged them together as a college student. I don't listen to specs, either, but I truly believe there is quality in those old amps that really hasn't been advanced that far over the past fifty years—if any!

Not that we've gone off-topic, we just disagree. A one-word response from me to the question posed in this thread title would most certainly be "Yes!"

 

[E-Stat]

How do you define "performance"?

Using the metrics I previously listed and I do favor smaller, higher revving motors. Cornering at 1.0G can be fun. The OE 165/80-13s on a 2002 delivered - what 0.72?

Of is it in sound quality or the fun of driving?

Both. I find my mid-engined Porsche Boxster checks all the performance and fun boxes. An older S2000 nearly so.

Sound reproduction is supposed to do just that; reproduce the live performance or the recording with as much accuracy as possible given we're reducing it to small boxes in our living rooms. I happen to like the big boxes that are my speakers and the big heavy amps that drive them.

Agree with first point, but I'm not a big particular fan of any boxes. Big, heavy amps with low noise, stiff power supplies, yes. My current preamp's power supply has twice the energy storage as the D150 power amplifier (38 joules). The VTL power amps have 500 (DC300A has 48).

Listening to a great recording on my 60-year-old JBLs driven by their 40-year-old Crown amps is just as stirring as it was when I first plugged them together as a college student.

If that works for you, fine.

As for me, I delight in the current system's ability to disappear before my ears while revealing new information in recordings I've had for decades.