Curious about reputations of various 70s brands

[A23gt]

And I will argue to the contrary: I have two MAC-4100 units and a MAC-1500, all of which have stood up to any & all of the Jap gear from the "Silver Age", receivers and separates of which I've had plenty, in headcutting sessions.



It must have also exerted an ill-effect on your hearing or @ least your memory of sound(s). Caffeine, in case you didn't already know, tiggers and/or exacerbates extant tinnitus. Yo.

To each their own. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. I will say that I haven't heard a 4100 and maybe it would be the receiver to change my opinion. I have had a 1500 and a 1700. They were obviously of high quality construction. The quality is what I expected, but they didn't have an exceptional sound to me.

I don't have tinnitus, perhaps you are thinking of someone else. It's a miracle I don't, and am not costing you disability money .
I do have older ears and can't hear above 14k anymore. Maybe the Macs have some magic sparkle outside my hearing range, or maybe not. Someone with full range hearing can lend input.

I let the 1700 go right before I joined the site. The memory is fairly fresh. I kept the pioneer sx-1010 over it because I prefer the sound. It sounded better to my ears.

 

[quaddriver]

The brands listed in the OP were the Fords, Chevys, and Dodges of the time.

Luxman
Hafler
Threshold
G.A.S.
Apt-Holman
ARC
Conrad-Johnson

These were the Ferraris and Jaguars. Thank heaven for elitism!

so they broke down a lot and cost a ton to fix, IF you could find a tech? thanks for the heads up!

 

[Blue Shadow]

The brands listed in the OP were the Fords, Chevys, and Dodges of the time.

QFT.

The common brands are like the big three making something for everyone.

When you mention the foreign cars, I put the good reliable, always ready to go gear in the BMW, MB camp and those things like tube rolling gear and separate tonearms on turntables, all that tweakable stuff as the Ferrari/Lamborghinis of the group.

There is nothing wrong with the Impala/ Galaxie 500/Coronets of the world but they weren't the standard setter unless you just wanted standard and not premium.

 

[quaddriver]

QFT.

The common brands are like the big three making something for everyone.

When you mention the foreign cars, I put the good reliable, always ready to go gear in the BMW, MB camp and those things like tube rolling gear and separate tonearms on turntables, all that tweakable stuff as the Ferrari/Lamborghinis of the group.

There is nothing wrong with the Impala/ Galaxie 500/Coronets of the world but they weren't the standard setter unless you just wanted standard and not premium.

Im not convinced everyone understand the concept of standard setter. You chose poor car brands to make the point tho....in the real world if you ever owned a bmw, once the loan is paid off you wont again (assuming you are not hyper who cares wealthy). Same goes for most "german" junk. (my bias shows, and it is NOT settable!)

Took me 3 tries to get the message with VAG...but we digress.

 

[WaynerN]

How can a high cost, high end component (or a car) be a standard setter. Are all cars and stereo gear suppose to be the high priced luxury stuff that everyone must buy.

Everything in life is on a bell curve. Some of it is junk, some is in the middle, and some is stellar. The surprising thing is that the quality bell curve does not always parallel the cost bell curve.

I came from a lower income family and if it weren't for Dynakits, cheap (cost) AR speakers and tunrtables, I would not have been able to enjoy music from my lawn mowing and summer job money. Turns out that some of the "cheap" stuff from back then has turned into gold today (AR speakers, table).

 

[sqlsavior]

Another car analogy goes awry...

Wait, I forgot Studebaker! And spell-check doesn't even recognize it.

 

[Laggard]

How can a high cost, high end component (or a car) be a standard setter. Are all cars and stereo gear suppose to be the high priced luxury stuff that everyone must buy.

Everything in life is on a bell curve. Some of it is junk, some is in the middle, and some is stellar. The surprising thing is that the quality bell curve does not always parallel the cost bell curve.

I came from a lower income family and if it weren't for Dynakits, cheap (cost) AR speakers and tunrtables, I would not have been able to enjoy music from my lawn mowing and summer job money. Turns out that some of the "cheap" stuff from back then has turned into gold today (AR speakers, table).

Tell me about AR speakers please.

 

[Blue Shadow]

in the real world if you ever owned a bmw, once the loan is paid off you wont again

The two cars in my garage are both 1985 BMWs one from new, one bought used, one a US model, the other a € model They work great.

But I hear you about the newer cars, don't own them outside of warranty. Rolling Vintage it the way we do it, isn't it? My cars are a few years newer than my Luxman electronics.

 

[Blue Shadow]

if it weren't for Dynakits, cheap (cost) AR speakers and tunrtables, I would not have been able to enjoy music from my lawn mowing and summer job money.

Most excellent sounding gear. My brother's first tt was a Dual but he got an AR during the GW birthday sales for about 70 bucks back then. He had AR-4x speakers and I think he built a PAT-4. My first rig, I built a Stereo 120. These were great value for the money. David Hafler made a career out of providing excellent sound quality for the money. Not the best, not the most expensive parts used inside but the sound quality is there in almost everything he made.

 

[tarior]

There was that, especially during the heyday of monster receivers. But it was also about style, with Pioneer the most remembered for the famous "silverface" 50 series. It was a gamble for them since up until then all receivers had half-black front ends with the tuning needle sort of suspended from above and travelling behind a backlit casing. For the 50 series Pioneer reversed that system by offering an all-silver face with the tuning needle installed at the bottom of the tuner part and travelling over the dial instead of behind. At the time this was quite a departure from the norm and Pioneer had a lot to lose if it didn't catch the customer's eye. As it happens it was a huge success with the 50 series selling more receivers than any other series or brand during that decade. Two of those receivers of notice that had unusual features: the mid-range SX-650 which had the "buttonless" all-metal face aluminum cast knobs and toggles, that was it, and yet it had every function of its competitors and then some. That all-metal config made it a very popular model, hence the high number of 650's on ebay and other similar sites, numbers that keep the price within reason (I have seen it listed from $50 in "junk condition" as the seller admitted to $1,000 for a completely restored unit in super-mint condition, exotic wood panels and all. That was just a few days ago.

I would have posted a pic of that one just to show its spectacular looks but it was sold the same day it was posted, for the buy-it-now price, the aforementioned $1,000. The seller was a retired Pioneer tech specializing in vintage and he had a cabinetmaker do the paneling, according to the comments. No way someone would sell such a gem for a grand lest they restored it themselves, as it the case here, otherwise they'd lose money. When I restored/had mine restored (also a 650) woodwork alone cost nearly $200 and it's just walnut, not an exotic essence from extra-rare trees that only grow on some Pacific island. Final cost for mine: $650

See, no buttons:

Identical to mine

Look at the fit and finish, the extrusions, the knobs, the dial windows, etc. of Japanese gear of the era then compare and contrast it with the "high end" gear that looks like it was built in a sheet metal shop.
I'm currently working on some Phase Linear gear (ca. 1979/80) for a friend, and it is absolute junk compared with the Japanese equipment of the day, and by way of comparison, an absolute PITA to work on.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Tell me about AR speakers please.

The early AR speakers were the beginning of the acoustic suspension design, using a sealed box to help bass response, making the box a lot smaller and hence the term bookshelf speaker. The AR-3 their early flagship is a 3-way with 12" woofer that was an industry standard. All of the single digit speakers were well received and AR had a considerable share of the market. Check out HFE and sign up to download manuals, brochures and such from them. The first run of single digit ARs, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. are the ones to get to learn the early history. The 3 has a strong following with prices a thousand higher than sound quality coming from Asia. The 4 a small speaker the 2 a 10" 2- or 3-way some sound good some not so much and the AR-5, a 10" woofered version of the AR-3a speaker designed to be an 8Ω instead of a 4Ω of the 3 to make it easier for amplifiers. The AR-3 was a power hog and lead companies to make more power. They needed 50 watts and AR provided it with their Amplifier and Receiver back in the day..

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/acoustic-research.shtml

 

[beans]

The one with the heavy "tax".

I give up. Marantz?

 

[Blue Shadow]

Another car analogy goes awry...

Wait, I forgot Studebaker! And spell-check doesn't even recognize it.

Here is an older post about that. https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/automotive-analogies.784583/

 

[quaddriver]

The two cars in my garage are both 1985 BMWs one from new, one bought used, one a US model, the other a € model They work great.

But I hear you about the newer cars, don't own them outside of warranty. Rolling Vintage it the way we do it, isn't it? My cars are a few years newer than my Luxman electronics.

true dat. we have a new toyota so that blows the trend, but aside from that I *know* without question my square suburban will fire up and guzzle gas anytime I walk out to it.

 

[quiet]

I drive a 76 440 New Yorker, 78 400 Cordoba, 78 400 Cougar, 77 455 Cutlass, 96 350 Roadmaster wagon and a 93 318 Dakota.
The repair bills have been very low, low enough I just pay to have the work done. And no diagnosis by substitution. I generally open the hood, point to the noise, and say change that part. At the local tire and brake store.
My last BMW, a 320i convertible from 2006 served up a $800 just out of warranty alternator bill. Payed the bill, sold the car. I wonder what a motor or trans would have cost.
The tow package Roadmaster gets 18 and 26. That's 26 at 80. Zero to 60, 8 seconds. Good every day car.

 

[quaddriver]

I drive a 76 440 New Yorker, 78 400 Cordoba, 78 400 Cougar, 77 455 Cutlass, 96 350 Roadmaster wagon and a 93 318 Dakota.
The repair bills have been very low, low enough I just pay to have the work done. And no diagnosis by substitution. I generally open the hood, point to the noise, and say change that part. At the local tire and brake store.
My last BMW, a 320i convertible from 2006 served up a $800 just out of warranty alternator bill. Payed the bill, sold the car. I wonder what a motor or trans would have cost.
The tow package Roadmaster gets 18 and 26. That's 26 at 80. Zero to 60, 8 seconds. Good every day car.

sold! you may deliver the 77 455 olds here.....got any pics?

 

[bobschneider]

Sony lives in its own realm. They can produce marvels with headphones and then turn around a push utter sh.... on us. From the 70's Sony I recall high-end portable radios and R-to-R tapes but amplifier-wise, nothing of notice. Odd.

Ever hear of their V-FET series? Innovative and great sounding.



(not mine, but I have the same pair)

Akio Morita, the founder of Sony, was a hard core audiophile, and made sure they usually had some very high end gear in their product line.

 

[maxhifi]

Look at the fit and finish, the extrusions, the knobs, the dial windows, etc. of Japanese gear of the era then compare and contrast it with the "high end" gear that looks like it was built in a sheet metal shop.
I'm currently working on some Phase Linear gear (ca. 1979/80) for a friend, and it is absolute junk compared with the Japanese equipment of the day, and by way of comparison, an absolute PITA to work on.

That is Phase Linear though, I don't think I've ever met a tech who actually likes working on Phase Linear gear, it's well known for being made in a cheesy way.

 

[tarior]

That is Phase Linear though, I don't think I've ever met a tech who actually likes working on Phase Linear gear, it's well known for being made in a cheesy way.

It also applies to GAS, Threshold, SAE, Audio Research, and a number of other "high end" audio products. Most all of them look like they were hammered out in a fab shop (I worked in metal fabrication for about 12 years), and have a reputation for both not being terribly reliable and notoriously difficult to repair.

 

[quiet]

@qauddriver.
I'll clean them up and shoot them in the spring. The 77 Olds ain't what you think. When the motor went in it didn't get posi rear, radiator, springs, trans, sway bars, shocks, dual exhaust or what ever else it should have. But they did a good job of the 70 Delta 98 motor.