I admire your subjective opinion. Stand fast against those who tell you that you cannot really know that you like it until you do 40 hours of blind testing and hire a math major to check your work.I think it has been mentioned already, subjectivity, and listening, and to the point you are quoting (and I am not disagreeing with it). I preferred (in my system and space) a Schitt Modi 2u over my SMSL-M8a which by all “accounts” should be “better”
THF2
Where we are going, there are no roads
Now, that’s an interesting way to say “I respectfully disagree” by prefacing it with “Bullshit. Really.”.
I am learning new things everyday.
NH-MAN
Addicted Member
Now, that’s an interesting way to say “I respectfully disagree” by prefacing it with “Bullshit. Really.”.
I am learning new things everyday.
lol
xdd
Active Member
Even with obvious differences they're not always obvious on all kinds of music. So for me at least, 5mins listening will never be long enough.
cpt_paranoia
Addicted Member
THF2 has only posted once on this thread, to comment on your 'respectful bullshit'. They have not posted any urban myths, garbled misunderstandings or other FUD.
cpt_paranoia
Addicted Member
But he didn't post the 'urban myth'. Go check page 1, and see who you aimed your 'respectful bullshit' comment at.
THF2
Where we are going, there are no roads
@cpt_paranoia, I appreciate your clarifying comments"
Just to keep the record straight, the aforementioned post was actually my 2nd post (#182) whereby I stated that most of this was over my head which really (to your point) had nothing to do with “urban legend”.
My recent post that is in question was about the actual wording that was used. It seemed to me that It felt like a “Slap/Kiss” statement, that’s all.
Hawkeye83
Super Member
I didn’t have time to read this whole thing but I would stretch your budget and get a used Denafrips Ares. It will probably cost you at least $550 shipped (That’s what I got mine for) But I think you would be pleased. Everyone’s ears and systems are different though! Denafrips sounds more laid-back and natural to me. None of that digital harshness. It seemed to get the timbre of instruments just right for my ears. Someday I am likely to get a Venus or Pontus.
Happy hunting and let us know what you find.
Happy hunting and let us know what you find.
youre telling bullshit and i respectfully disagree...lol good one 
Somebody watched the on death row documentary.
Now to the DACs. The gentleman who mentioned that already a cheap decoder today has no problem decoding large 4k video files alreday made a good point. a DAC is no secret science today. It has to create a certain voltage for a certain binary value, the more accurate this is done, the less tolerance the result has when compared to the original recording. Me personally, im really a dumbass and my ears seem to be made of wood, because i cannot hear apart an external 5 dollar DAC from a way more complex 100 dollar DAC or even my ALC 889 soundchip. By the way, all this cheap DAC chips are multiple times better, or more accurate than any highend-CD-player for several 1000 dollars from the beginning of digital audio. Im not an audiophile person, but i know something about IT and electronics and i have basic understanding of what needs to be done to change Data to an actual electric signal that is fed to your speakers or your amp. Its technology that can be done for pocket change money today. I always feel awkward when people on Youtube tell their audiance how they can tell different DAC chips apart. Cirrus, ESS, AKM, man, the extent of characteristics that people think they can hear. This chip sounds more alive, this one is fuller in the mids, the other one sounds more analytical, whatever that means. Every single blind test that i read and that has been done in a somewhat professional manner proves what everybody with a common sense is suspecting, people just are not able to tell different soundsources apart, not a decent 500 dollar amp from a 10k amp, let alone different dedicated 24bit DACs. Now there are a few DACs out there that people reported to very obviously sound flawed, however there are many ways to mess up a device like that, there are a variety of components in these DACs, not only the DAC chip, but also controllers, voltage regulators, Bluettooth chips, headphone amps etc. and if a chinese company that doesnt have decades of experience tries to throw a bunch of good chips in one casing for a discount price i can see a potential for "mistakes". I do believe that all these DAC chips that are build in devices from 10-100 dollar are well above what anybody needs and can actually hear apart, when proper implimented. The founder and CEO of a German audio-factory tells it like that: -Even from 1 highendspeaker to another, the difference you hear will always be bigger than from 1 cheap DAC to an overpriced one.
People should really start to enjoy and to pay for what they can actually hear and not what they think they have to. Its a bit like the emperors new clothes, nobody wants to be branded as the "donkey" that just isnt able to appriciate and enjoy this fantastic 10.000 Dollar DAC. Especially not the ones that already paid for it. And who wants to put and FX-audio DAC for 80 dollars between his 5000 dollar dynaudio speakers? You just cant wish for better customers than the "audiophiles".
And giving people with a somewhat limited budget the advice to spend a good part of their money on a f.... DAC and therefore make them buy cheaper speakers ist just outraging and total donkadvice.
Somebody watched the on death row documentary.
Now to the DACs. The gentleman who mentioned that already a cheap decoder today has no problem decoding large 4k video files alreday made a good point. a DAC is no secret science today. It has to create a certain voltage for a certain binary value, the more accurate this is done, the less tolerance the result has when compared to the original recording. Me personally, im really a dumbass and my ears seem to be made of wood, because i cannot hear apart an external 5 dollar DAC from a way more complex 100 dollar DAC or even my ALC 889 soundchip. By the way, all this cheap DAC chips are multiple times better, or more accurate than any highend-CD-player for several 1000 dollars from the beginning of digital audio. Im not an audiophile person, but i know something about IT and electronics and i have basic understanding of what needs to be done to change Data to an actual electric signal that is fed to your speakers or your amp. Its technology that can be done for pocket change money today. I always feel awkward when people on Youtube tell their audiance how they can tell different DAC chips apart. Cirrus, ESS, AKM, man, the extent of characteristics that people think they can hear. This chip sounds more alive, this one is fuller in the mids, the other one sounds more analytical, whatever that means. Every single blind test that i read and that has been done in a somewhat professional manner proves what everybody with a common sense is suspecting, people just are not able to tell different soundsources apart, not a decent 500 dollar amp from a 10k amp, let alone different dedicated 24bit DACs. Now there are a few DACs out there that people reported to very obviously sound flawed, however there are many ways to mess up a device like that, there are a variety of components in these DACs, not only the DAC chip, but also controllers, voltage regulators, Bluettooth chips, headphone amps etc. and if a chinese company that doesnt have decades of experience tries to throw a bunch of good chips in one casing for a discount price i can see a potential for "mistakes". I do believe that all these DAC chips that are build in devices from 10-100 dollar are well above what anybody needs and can actually hear apart, when proper implimented. The founder and CEO of a German audio-factory tells it like that: -Even from 1 highendspeaker to another, the difference you hear will always be bigger than from 1 cheap DAC to an overpriced one.
People should really start to enjoy and to pay for what they can actually hear and not what they think they have to. Its a bit like the emperors new clothes, nobody wants to be branded as the "donkey" that just isnt able to appriciate and enjoy this fantastic 10.000 Dollar DAC. Especially not the ones that already paid for it. And who wants to put and FX-audio DAC for 80 dollars between his 5000 dollar dynaudio speakers? You just cant wish for better customers than the "audiophiles".
And giving people with a somewhat limited budget the advice to spend a good part of their money on a f.... DAC and therefore make them buy cheaper speakers ist just outraging and total donkadvice.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
youre telling bullshit and i respectfully disagree...lol good one
Somebody watched the on death row documentary.
Now to the DACs. The gentleman who mentioned that already a cheap decoder today has no problem decoding large 4k video files alreday made a good point. a DAC is no secret science today. It has to create a certain voltage for a certain binary value, the more accurate this is done, the less tolerance the result has when compared to the original recording. Me personally, im really a dumbass and my ears seem to be made of wood, because i cannot hear apart an external 5 dollar DAC from a way more complex 100 dollar DAC or even my ALC 889 soundchip. By the way, all this cheap DAC chips are multiple times better, or more accurate than any highend-CD-player for several 1000 dollars from the beginning of digital audio. Im not an audiophile person, but i know something about IT and electronics and i have basic understanding of what needs to be done to change Data to an actual electric signal that is fed to your speakers or your amp. Its technology that can be done for pocket change money today. I always feel awkward when people on Youtube tell their audiance how they can tell different DAC chips apart. Cirrus, ESS, AKM, man, the extent of characteristics that people think they can hear. This chip sounds more alive, this one is fuller in the mids, the other one sounds more analytical, whatever that means. Every single blind test that i read and that has been done in a somewhat professional manner proves what everybody with a common sense is suspecting, people just are not able to tell different soundsources apart, not a decent 500 dollar amp from a 10k amp, let alone different dedicated 24bit DACs. Now there are a few DACs out there that people reported to very obviously sound flawed, however there are many ways to mess up a device like that, there are a variety of components in these DACs, not only the DAC chip, but also controllers, voltage regulators, Bluettooth chips, headphone amps etc. and if a chinese company that doesnt have decades of experience tries to throw a bunch of good chips in one casing for a discount price i can see a potential for "mistakes". I do believe that all these DAC chips that are build in devices from 10-100 dollar are well above what anybody needs and can actually hear apart, when proper implimented. The founder and CEO of a German audio-factory tells it like that: -Even from 1 highendspeaker to another, the difference you hear will always be bigger than from 1 cheap DAC to an overpriced one.
People should really start to enjoy and to pay for what they can actually hear and not what they think they have to. Its a bit like the emperors new clothes, nobody wants to be branded as the "donkey" that just isnt able to appriciate and enjoy this fantastic 10.000 Dollar DAC. Especially not the ones that already paid for it. And who wants to put and FX-audio DAC for 80 dollars between his 5000 dollar dynaudio speakers? You just cant wish for better customers than the "audiophiles".
And giving people with a somewhat limited budget the advice to spend a good part of their money on a f.... DAC and therefore make them buy cheaper speakers ist just outraging and total donkadvice.
That's quite a first post you've graced us with.
I'm wondering how much if any personal knowledge you have to support what you imply you're knowledgeable about. Or, do you just read tech specs and frequent sites like ASR?
FYI: With todays DAC's the part that makes the most difference in their sound is the analog output stage. Good ones are not cheap.
"good ones are not cheap", yes, a Rolex also isnt cheap. It might ba made out of diamonds and platin and somewhat justify the price, but it wont show you the time more accurate or give you additional time. You buy it for the purpose of having something valueable on your wrist.
Mart Mccall
Well-Known Member
That's quite a first post you've graced us with.
I'm wondering how much if any personal knowledge you have to support what you imply you're knowledgeable about. Or, do you just read tech specs and frequent sites like ASR?
FYI: With todays DAC's the part that makes the most difference in their sound is the analog output stage. Good ones are not cheap.
If there's a problem with the analogue output stage it will show up in the measurements of the output of the DAC.
I can't distinguish the expensive DACs from the cheap ones. And I've tried. I have friends who say they can, they use expensive R-2R DACs and say things like 'It has much deeper soundstage.'. They laugh at me for using a Topping. Happily I'm 53 years old and so don't care.
Much of what’s been said here doesn’t really apply to Bluetooth as it’s a lossy codec and unless you’re using LDAC or the like you can do much better with a direct connection.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
I have and use a Topping D-10 in my bedroom system. It drives a Little Dot MKII and HiFi Man HE4x phones. When I replaced the op-amp output IC with a a discrete one from Sparkos, there was an immediate audible improvement. My 73 YO ears easily heard the difference.
Topping mounts the output op-amp on a socket. Changing or replacing it requires no tools.
IME headphones don't and can't produce a "soundstage". All the sound comes from a straight line from one ear to the other. The only exceptions to this are binaural recordings. However, they tend to sound awful on speakers. My main system is a different thing altogether. With well recorded material I always experience a soundstage that's wide and deep.
If you've never experienced a good soundstage perhaps it's time to seek out a system and/or music that produces one. Most audiophiles having heard a good soundstage want to hear it again and often.
Mart Mccall
Well-Known Member
In thirty odd years being in this game I've experienced a good soundstage many times. The best by some margin was via Linkwitz LX521 speakers set up in a very large room. I have not heard anything close to that not even in studios. It was truly 'holographic.'
However my own room is not really wide enough to get the necessary separation of the speakers or to place them enough distance from the side walls to be able to even approach what is possible in that respect. I have no intention of moving house, so I live with the compromise.
I am not aware of any mechanism by which a DAC can affect soundstage. Soundstage is a combination of what is encoded on the recording, the loudspeakers, the room, and the position of the loudspeakers in the room.
However my own room is not really wide enough to get the necessary separation of the speakers or to place them enough distance from the side walls to be able to even approach what is possible in that respect. I have no intention of moving house, so I live with the compromise.
I am not aware of any mechanism by which a DAC can affect soundstage. Soundstage is a combination of what is encoded on the recording, the loudspeakers, the room, and the position of the loudspeakers in the room.
@Mart Mccall
yeah you should invite him to a blind test, make him bring his DAC with him and and build a setup he cant cheat. I mean your friend, the one with the expensive DAC.
"Deeper soundstage", sure.
yeah you should invite him to a blind test, make him bring his DAC with him and and build a setup he cant cheat. I mean your friend, the one with the expensive DAC.
"Deeper soundstage", sure.
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