Damned If You Do.............
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kangatoy
Crazy as a Loon
Having trapped feral cats for neuter and release off and on for the last 30 years, I can only say that the Audubon society has made a grave error on this issue. Thousands upon thousands of cats end up homeless, aka feral, each year in this country. At least the effort to neuter and release them helps keep the total population from growing exponentially. Without monetary support for such efforts many feral cats will be left to reproduce at will. Would the bird lovers suggest that we simply trap every feral cat we can find and exterminate them? (probably) How human would that be? I guess I will be seeing fewer birds and squirrels in my neighborhood (in Los Angeles county) in near future. Thanks Audubon society you have made my life a lot easier, no more trapping cats and no more cleaning bird **** off the car, more time to surf AK.
Living were I do in the country , people will just drop off cats and dogs from time to time and drive away .
We will try and care for them but sometimes the abandoned pet will run off trying to fine it's way home .
This fall we started seeing a stray cat around . He's fitting in well so far , but after $$ in Vet bills .
I have no problem with fixing unwanted pets and if they can get a few birds or squirrels that's fine with me . Around these parts way to many now , we could stand a thinning out .
My Problems with people who get a cute puppy or kitten then leave them in cage because they can't or don't know how to care for them . Then when the pet grows up untrained they get tired and will just let them loose .
Barney
We will try and care for them but sometimes the abandoned pet will run off trying to fine it's way home .
This fall we started seeing a stray cat around . He's fitting in well so far , but after $$ in Vet bills .
I have no problem with fixing unwanted pets and if they can get a few birds or squirrels that's fine with me . Around these parts way to many now , we could stand a thinning out .
My Problems with people who get a cute puppy or kitten then leave them in cage because they can't or don't know how to care for them . Then when the pet grows up untrained they get tired and will just let them loose .
Barney
I have to agree with this. Who sues next? Rat lovers?
Catch, spay/neuter, treat for diseases such as feline aids, and offer for adoption to responsible folks. The Humane Society, and like organizations, needs all the support it can get.
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Unwanted cats should simply be killed. What's so hard about that?
Geese too.
Geese too.
merrylander
AK Member
Right, while we are at it let's kill off all those old folks whose days of contributing to society are over. And any other useless types.
We were adopted by a feral mother cat and her four kittens. We had them spayed, neutered given all necessary shots and licensed them. They are too wild to bring indoors and in any case Florence is allergic. The sleep on our porch in heated Kitty Campers and get fed daily, if that bothers anyone you know what you can do.
We also feed the birds and while the cats are great bird watchers they are hopeless when it comes to catching them. They do a great job on mice, have not seen one in months.
Just maybe the Audobon Society and the Judge should pull their heads out and look around.
We were adopted by a feral mother cat and her four kittens. We had them spayed, neutered given all necessary shots and licensed them. They are too wild to bring indoors and in any case Florence is allergic. The sleep on our porch in heated Kitty Campers and get fed daily, if that bothers anyone you know what you can do.
We also feed the birds and while the cats are great bird watchers they are hopeless when it comes to catching them. They do a great job on mice, have not seen one in months.
Just maybe the Audobon Society and the Judge should pull their heads out and look around.
usedto
Lunatic Member
I understand both sides.
Rats and mice are generally accepted as pests, and other than to a select few, have minimal followers. Birds, on the other hand, are highly respected by many followers. There are examples of excesses of birds being "pests" (pigeons, seagulls, crows, starlings) and efforts to control their population usually go undisputed. On the other hand, there are thousands of laws in place to protect hawks, eagles, parrots, and game birds to prevent extinction. The Audubon folks are just as sincere about protecting birds as are cat lovers. Bird numbers ebb and flow according to mother nature in most cases. Cats have been harbored, nurtured, and allowed to reproduce thanks to human intervention, without letting nature control the species as it maybe should have. We have tipped the scale in their favor.
I personally think it's unfair to put one in front of the other on the list of those to help. I can personally say that I would rather be awakened in the morning to the sound of the mocking birds, scrub jays, or finches, than the sound of a couple of the local feral cats fornicating under my bedroom window.
Rats and mice are generally accepted as pests, and other than to a select few, have minimal followers. Birds, on the other hand, are highly respected by many followers. There are examples of excesses of birds being "pests" (pigeons, seagulls, crows, starlings) and efforts to control their population usually go undisputed. On the other hand, there are thousands of laws in place to protect hawks, eagles, parrots, and game birds to prevent extinction. The Audubon folks are just as sincere about protecting birds as are cat lovers. Bird numbers ebb and flow according to mother nature in most cases. Cats have been harbored, nurtured, and allowed to reproduce thanks to human intervention, without letting nature control the species as it maybe should have. We have tipped the scale in their favor.
I personally think it's unfair to put one in front of the other on the list of those to help. I can personally say that I would rather be awakened in the morning to the sound of the mocking birds, scrub jays, or finches, than the sound of a couple of the local feral cats fornicating under my bedroom window.
merrylander
AK Member
Well ours don't fornicate an more - sorry Mouser. As to the mice they got into the garage and under the hood of our cars, chewed on the computer wiring to an amount in excess of $1000 so I have no brief for them. And the white tailed lawn rats have cost us a bundle in trees that they have destroyed.
I would not mind some bird song, but sqwaking Bluejays and Mourning doves just before daybreak I could do without. However, they are God's creatures and welcome at the bird feeder I just built.
I would not mind some bird song, but sqwaking Bluejays and Mourning doves just before daybreak I could do without. However, they are God's creatures and welcome at the bird feeder I just built.
krowmagnum
Compulsive speaker freak
I just let my cat out and told him to eat a bird today.
usedto
Lunatic Member
I was at a friend's warehouse one day looking at some equipment. He had a couple cats that ran around the shop to keep the varmint population down. I was standing next to an empty crate that was sitting on the ground. It was about 4' long by 2' wide, about 18" deep. There was a short 2 X 4 laying across one of the corners. I happened to look inside, and one of his cats was couched in the corner. I brought it to his attention, and he told me to stand back and watch. Sure enough, in a few minutes, a sparrow landed on the board and started chirping it's lungs out. All of a sudden, a lightning quick paw reached up, snagged the bird, and disappeared. A few seconds later, the cat hopped out of the crate with the bird in it's mouth, and took it's meal in the warehouse to eat.
merrylander
AK Member
We have hawks here and that had me worried when the kittens were small, Ithink if one stooped at one the cats today the other four wheold be all over it like a tent. mouser, the ex tom gets right inside the bird feeder like thinks a bird will come in, right but hey he is only a cat, what does he know.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
nevermind
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whoaru99
Epic Member
I don' think they're saying it results in more dead birds, only that the program should be stopped because it's not very effective at reducing the number thereof (cost vs benefit ratio?).
Cats will do what cats do, that is reproduce and kill birds, amongst other things. Perhaps it would be more effective to control the population of stray/wild animals by punishment of spay/neuter for pet owners who let their pets run free.
Cats will do what cats do, that is reproduce and kill birds, amongst other things. Perhaps it would be more effective to control the population of stray/wild animals by punishment of spay/neuter for pet owners who let their pets run free.
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usedto
Lunatic Member
If the cats are euthanized, they're gone. If they're neutered and released, they can still eat birds.
So, the next argument, then, would be that once they live out their life, they'll be gone. That's fine, but you have to consider a few things. I'd bet that fewer that 5% of the feral cats get caught, neutered, and released. Of that 5%, a large portion may have naturally been killed in the wild, so the actual amount that is prevented from re-populating is minuscule.
The other issue addressed in the current litigation is the public funding, with little or no documentation as to results.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
nevermind
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whoaru99
Epic Member
I don't have a cat in this fight, except to say that about the same number of critters that would be put down is probably about the same number that would be clipped. Net change to feral cat population decreases more quickly in the put down scenario because future offspring, theoretically, are reduced by the same amount either way but there would also be less cats today and tomorrow in the put them down scenario. The latter is what the issue is, killing the cats. One really big difference is that clipped cats still kill birds, those in the other group don't.
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