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DCM Time Frame comparison

I just purchase a pair of DCM Timeframe TF-500 loudspeakers. I've read it is the series II, but I don't know what that means. My initial impression is a very smooth, non-fatiguing, spacious presentation powered with a HK870 power amp. My thoughts for buying them is to use them with a vintage 45wpc McIntosh MA5100 integrated amp, that is out for repair with Terry DeWick. I should have it back in a month.

How do you think these speakers will do with a medium powered vintage SS amp.
 
Found a pair of TF-700s on Monday...I hooked them up to a Maggie SEP console pull in my garage (I am assuming about 5 watts a channel since I think it came out of a record player...it is a 196 amp)....I was expecting not great sound since I figured that the speakers would be underpowered. But I was wrong they sound fantastic. I have a pair of 250s in the attic put away in storage and they are nice but these are in another league. I think they may sound better than my Snell Type III Es....

The low end coming from them from the Maggie is adequate and the treble and mid-range is excellent. I would not pass up a set of these if you find them at the right price.
 
any opinions on the TF-700s compared to TF-500s?

I just picked up a pair of rebuilt & restored 700s, but so far I'm underwhelmed and disappointed

the high-to-mid frequency response is noticeably weaker and poorer in the 700s (vs. my 500s), despite having new Seas tweeters and upgraded crossover caps

compared side-by-side, the 700s sound dull and lifeless, while the 500s sound vibrant, sparkling and alive, and able to pick out all the details in the mids and highs

I thought the 700s would be very similar (and likely better) than the 500s, and would at least duplicate the 500's great reproduction of highs, strings, etc.... but I'm seeing the opposite and the 700s sound noticeably WORSE! :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

could there be something wrong with my 700s, or are the 500s simply better? (doubtful based on what people have been saying)

any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated, thank you!
 
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I have a pair of TF-700s in decent shape, but the chintzy particle board needs some TLC

what's the best product to use to fix up the rear panel?... I want to fill in all old screw holes, damaged particle board, etc. then set in new screws

looking for something like "plastic wood" or better ???, hopefully that is easy to apply, doesn't shrink, strong, and easy to sand if needed

also, any suggestions for screws and/or washers to provide a strong, but nice clean and flush appearance, so the sock will slide over easily and minimize the appearance of screw bumps

thanks!
 
any opinions on the TF-700s compared to TF-500s?

I just picked up a pair of rebuilt & restored 700s, but so far I'm underwhelmed and disappointed

the high-to-mid frequency response is noticeably weaker and poorer in the 700s (vs. my 500s), despite having new Seas tweeters and upgraded crossover caps

compared side-by-side, the 700s sound dull and lifeless, while the 500s sound vibrant, sparkling and alive, and able to pick out all the details in the mids and highs

I thought the 700s would be very similar (and likely better) than the 500s, and would at least duplicate the 500's great reproduction of highs, strings, etc.... but I'm seeing the opposite and the 700s sound noticeably WORSE! :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

could there be something wrong with my 700s, or are the 500s simply better? (doubtful based on what people have been saying)

any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated, thank you!

OK, I've finally opened up the speakers and investigated!

here's what I found:

GENERAL
- rear panel has been removed multiple times, judging by the nightmare of screws and holes (!!!)
- I disconnected the drivers and tested each one individually in place by playing music:
* midrange works (very faint, but that might be normal)... original Audax unit
* tweeter works (faint, but again probably normal)... replacement Seas Prestige 19TFF1, like new condition
* woofer works (much louder than the others)... original unit, excellent shape (recently refurbished)

CROSSOVER
- it's one of the "old style" crossovers (before PCB board)... yikes, what a beast with all that tangled wiring! :(
- quick scan shows all(?) solder joints are decent
- most parts are original, some have been replaced (the electrolytics and some resistors)
- C5 has a large fancy Solen 6.8uF metalized polypropylene cap, but I think the prev. owner thought they were replacing C6... C5 is spec'd as a *NP electrolytic*
- C5 has spliced leads, suggesting prev. owner experimented with values (but for the wrong cap position it seems?)
- C6 (the inline tweeter cap) is original blue mylar cap
- R2 and R4 are 27ohm 5%, but spec is 25ohm 10%... they measure ~27ohm
- RA is the correct 47ohm (not 100ohm like for TF-1000 model)

QUESTIONS:
- does any of the above possibly explain my sub-par high/mid frequencies?
- I know that C6 is an important one and should have a fancy cap... what about C1, C2 and C3, do they also need to be upgraded?

also, unless the above variances would explain my issues, I also plan to replace the Seas tweeters with the proper Vifas (from PE), because that might be the root cause

thanks!
 

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Is that the original crossover? Plywood?!

Many replaced parts. New red brown Panasonic caps. Inductors are aligned. That looks way off to me.

I would start over and work of the factory schematic.
 
Also, I see two colors of glue. I have a hard time believing this is the original crossover.

I would get fresh E-caps and start over, and measure every part out of circuit. And rebuild that mess.

Not sure if I would keep those red Panasonics.
 
Is that the original crossover? Plywood?!
Many replaced parts. New red brown Panasonic caps. Inductors are aligned. That looks way off to me. I would start over and work of the factory schematic.

ha, ha... it's not plywood, but rather some el-cheapo lightweight panelling, crudely hacked off of a sheet... I love DCMs, but IMHO they sure do have some questionable construction techniques

actually, I think it *is* an original (with some components changed along the way)

I say this because I've seen a few mentions of these early versions on the web, including these 2 photos (which I found in web forums)... both appear to be all original, and very similar to mine... this design seems to be before they went to using a custom PCB board

by comparing those to mine, I am assuming that the 2 e-caps are already replacements, and, that the brown Panasonic caps are original

I know it looks messy and insane, but there's no way I'm going to invest the time to recreate/rebuild this thing... if that's the way they built it, and it actually works (and it does), then I'll have to pretend I never saw it once my cabinets are all closed up again

SEE ATTACHED PHOTOS (again, not from my speakers)
 

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Okiedokie.

Well, I would still go through every single component, and replace all E-caps. Work as outlined per schematic. Listening to my TF1000 set now, I love them, it is all there...top to bottom.
 
I'm ordering the Vifa tweeters from Parts Express...

so will want to combine my order for the caps, and wondering if anyone can recommend "best bang for the buck" choice for my metal poly caps: Dayton, Jantzen, Audyn, or Solen?

my budget is limited, but I must have decent sound and something worthy and that compliments the TF-700 speakers

(I've had great success with putting Solens in my TF-500s, but then again, I don't have much to compare against)
 
I tried Solen and the red polypropylene that CeDist sells, and I came to the conclusion that the polypropylene caps are too forward sounding with the TimeWindows.

I would get a high quality polyester cap as spec'd in the schematic.
 
I tried Solen and the red polypropylene that CeDist sells, and I came to the conclusion that the polypropylene caps are too forward sounding with the TimeWindows.

I would get a high quality polyester cap as spec'd in the schematic.

the schematic specifies only "Mylar"...
 
Geeze Dude - Start your own thread - you are adding nothing to a Comparison discussion!!...
 
There are some TF speakers that have caps that are not friction fit. I had a pair of TF-350s that had the tops screwed in from below. The giveaway was the back panel of the speaker was not covered in grille cloth and came off when a handful of screws were removed. The foot was the same way, bolted to the cabinet.

As for the TW being a lesser or earlier model, The TW7, TW3 and TW1a were shown on the same spec sheet as the TF-1000 and TF-700 and these two were listed last. So I don't think the TF series was a higher series than the TW. Maybe Steve can fill us in on this when some AKers get a chance to talk to him.

I have a pair of TF-500s that also do NOT have the "friction fit" top cap... be careful, because these are very solidly BOLTED into the top of the cabinet with 2 nuts located and reachable only from the inside... don't bang that top cap too hard or you might break it, like I almost did
 
Its been a long time since I put the All-DCM Time Frame surround system together.
I sold all of the original pieces a few years back, except the TF-600s I kept as rear surrounds.

But when Baco99 offered up a pair of refurbed Timepiece speakers as an Auction for Audiokarma -
I had to put a bid in ... and I won them!
They arrived today and I pulled the Vandersteen VCC-1 I had been using as a center in my 7.1 system, and put one of the Timepiece speakers in its place, on its side just under my big screen monitor! Great stuff - wife already prefers the Timepiece sound as the center ...


IMG_0499.jpg
 
Calling all DCM Time Frame experts. I just picked up a pair of TF-275 speakers with a blown tweeter. It seems like there is very little info on this model online. It's rarely mentioned and I could not find a crossover schematic anywhere. Price wise, I was able to determine it fit between the TF-250 and the TF-350. That's pretty obvious, based on the model number, but does anyone know the chronological order of these three models? I can't imagine why they would have three models so close in size, specs and price all available at the same time. Based on nothing more than pure speculation and a few hunches, I am wondering if the TF-275 is a later model that replaced both the TF-250 and TF-350 at the bottom of the Time Frame food chain. Anyone know the dates the various models were introduced and discontinued?

I learned a few more things in my research. First, the TF-275 uses the same tweeter, and most likely, the same midbass driver as the TF-600. Basically, it uses the exact same concentrically mounted midbass/tweeter sandwich as the TF-600. Here's what it look like with sock pulled down:

Time_Frame_TF-275_1_zps2cei0buq.jpg


So, it's basically half of a TF-600 with no additional midbass driver and no rear facing tweeters. That also makes the crossover much simpler as there is no time delay circuitry for the rear facing tweeters. I didn't take any photos of the crossovers, but I will when I pull them out for a recap. The crossover only has three caps: two 3.3uF NP electrolytics and one .47uF film cap.

You can read more about my restoration/repair work here (no refoam needed the TF-275 midbass driver uses rubber surrounds just like the TF-600).

In any case, one other thing that makes me wonder if the TF-275 is a later model is the condition of the inner sock "headliner" material. It's in beautiful condition, with absolutely no deterioration what-so-ever. Much better than all the photos I've seen online of disintegrating black foam. These TF-275s are in overall excellent condition (other than the blow tweeter), but the condition of the headliner fabric makes me wonder, again, if these are a later model. Unfortunately, these didn't come with any labels on the terminal cups. So, no serial numbers to go by. In fact, it took me a while to figure out exactly what model I had.

The good news is replacement tweeters are available, and they are cheap (about 3 bucks each, from Parts Express). They are: Goldwood GT-302/S 1/2" Mylar Dome Tweeters (DCM recommended replacement for the TF-600). Parts Express Part Number 270-175. I'll go ahead and replace them both, so the right and left channel speakers match. I also ordered some Audyn Q4 caps (two 3.3uF and one 0.47uF per speaker) to recap the crossovers. So, about $9.00 per speaker to replace the tweeters and recap the crossovers. Should be money well spent.

These are my first DCM speakers and I'm already hooked and scouring Craigslist for some of the larger models (I think I'd like to give the TF-600s a try, as they seem to be the closely related to the TF-275s). As shown in my restoration thread, I temporarily hooked up a little Audax tweeter just to verify that there are no other hidden problems and they sound great. I listened to them all day, even pulled out some of my favorite SACDs for the occasion. Maybe I should change my username to DCM_Fan.
 
Its been a long time since I put the All-DCM Time Frame surround system together.
I sold all of the original pieces a few years back, except the TF-600s I kept as rear surrounds.

But when Baco99 offered up a pair of refurbed Timepiece speakers as an Auction for Audiokarma -
I had to put a bid in ... and I won them!
They arrived today and I pulled the Vandersteen VCC-1 I had been using as a center in my 7.1 system, and put one of the Timepiece speakers in its place, on its side just under my big screen monitor! Great stuff - wife already prefers the Timepiece sound as the center ...


View attachment 747288
HJames,
Question for you regarding DCM Timeframe 600 vs. 400. You seem to be the most knowledgeable person on the internet I have found in regards to the DCM speakers as you have owned virtually all of them. I have seen all of the specs and read the reviews. The 600s appear, for the most part, to have more "outstanding" reviews compared to the 400s. In other words, more people commenting how awesome they sound. I believe that they have two additional rear facing tweeters compared to the 400. Both the 400 and 600 appear to have been second generation speakers, coming after the 300/500/700 speakers. I do not wish to purchase through ebay so have been looking through Craigslist for several months. There is a pair of 400s for sale for $200. I have not yet seen a pair of 600s in a 150 mile radius. I do not have audiophile equipment. Just basic stuff like Kenwood KR-5560 stereo receiver, JVC tape deck, Sony CD player. Stereo is in a 15 x17 foot room. Question: Will I notice a difference between a pair of the 400s and the 600s? Do you suggest I just keep waiting until a pair of 600s shows up or will I be just as happy buying the pair of 400s . I don't mind waiting if they would be worth the wait. Thanks for sharing your expertise on this forum! Peter (Richmond, VA)
 
I have a pair of both 400 and 600. I have been using the 400s for the last 2 years as I downsized my amp and my cat shredded the socks on the 600s. The 400s sound really good and are easier to place as they only have one rear firing tweeter. The 600s are more difficult because the tweeters are firing at an angle from either side instead of straight back.

There is a difference in sound, but you will only notice it if you have heard both. The 600 have a little more bass, more headroom, and hotter treble. In general they sound fuller and can do more sound staging tricks. I find the 400s to be a bit more balanced in presentation.

I would get the 400s and then keep looking for the 600s, although I would offer the guy maybe 150. That's what I paid for my 600s
 
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