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Decision Time: To Upgrade OPTs for Maggie 9304-20 or Not!?! Help

Harlon

Harlon

Active Member
For those who aren't following along, I'm amidst a console rebuild with a 9304-20 amp at its core. I'm working through a full console refurb, and it is time to either order upgraded output transformers or not.
The idea from the beginning has been to go UL with the 9304-20 using new Dynaclones or Edcor 23% trannies. I find myself very happy with the musicality of the amp as is, but I would like more. It sounds great at moderate listening levels. I'd like it to sound great at higher volumes. I'm not sure if is saturation or not but it tends to get kind of garbled at higher volumes. It loses something when you crank it up.

I decided a while back that I would stick with the Edcors if I do buy new trannies so that's not part of the question.

I'm still way new to this so I really don't know what to expect from upgrading trannies. As a red blooded American male I looked at the UL upgrades done to by Fasterdammit and Gadget and felt like I had to have a set for my amp. But being a newb I really don't know what it will do for my amp.

And this is not strictly a money issue. The Triod vs Edcor may be, but to do it or not do isn't. It's really more about how do I make this the best fullest sounding amp I can. When my Wife powers up the console for the first time, I really want her to be impressed.:)

I'm looking for opinions and recommendations.

2 Questions:
1). What will upgrading trannies do for my amp? What aspects will be improved or changed? I've heard that they will provide more headroom and wider bandwidth? What does this mean? I've read they're both good, but don't really know what they mean.
2). Would you make the change? This part is more of a poll. Yes or no. Would you or wouldn't you?

Thanks as always for the input.
 
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What you potentially get is better bass response. You'd really only know it if you had speakers that could reproduce it though. In the console cabinet, I don't know that you're ever going to get it to take real advantage of it. If you want more lows, what might be a more viable option is to simply add a subwoofer into the mix.

So the yes/no. I did it on mine. I was experimenting, and wanted to know what I could get out of it. It sounds good, but probably should be dialed in more for optimal performance. I probably haven't had it plugged in for more than a year though. If I was running it in a console I wouldn't bother with it though.
 
1. They will give you better bass, that's about it. Mids and highs are where more of the spatial information is, and the maggie OPTs already excel there as well as or better than the replacements you mentioned.
2. No.
 
As clarification would the "better bass response" mean the bass would be less garbled when I turn up the volume?
 
They will go deeper in the bass. The maggie OPTs will go down to maybe 55 Hz or 60 Hz at full power, whereas either of the other OPTs you suggested will probably reproduce down to at least 30 Hz at full power, but of course it depends on the exact models you are looking at as replacements..
 
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I still wouldn't do it. The maggie OPTs have a level of magic in the mids and high frequencies that are hard to beat. But as you can tell, I value mid and high frequency information more than I value low frequency information. Certainly others preferences will differ.

Also remember that when you change output transformers you are changing the sonic signature of the amp.. You may introduce HF instability or possibly make HF performance worse, unless you retune the amp. Retuning requires a scope, signal generator, a little bit of knowledge, and patience.

One more thing. having used Edcor iron before, I can say with some confidence that the HF performance of the maggie opts will easily meet and possibly beat the Edcors.
 
Okay, thus far the tally sheet reads,
2 against, 1 emphatically against, and 0 for.

I'm telling you, I've got to get a scope and generator. Anybody here got an inside line to Santa? I'm putting together a pretty nice list. I've been a good boy, I swear.

Please, I'd like more input. Is there anyone out there who would recommend the upgrade?
 
And a sidebar question if the no's are going to take it.
I like the sound of the amp but I want it to be bigger, fuller. I want it to fill the whole downstairs of my house, not just the 20 feet around it. Where do I go to get that? Is there a way to get closer to that with this amp?
 
If it sounds garbled when you turn it up, it means it is clipping. New iron won't change that, you need more power. I e a different amp. Better yet, though: get new speakers. Efficient ones.
 
I added a sub to my 9304-20 system. Not because of the Maggie OT, but because my 3pi mains don't go low enough with any amp.
Being a 2-speaker purist, I loathed the idea of a subwoofer, but I've grown accustomed to it.

I say keep the original Maggie OT and add a sub.

BTW, I have a KT88SE with Edcor CXSE-25 OT. I like Edcor, but I agree with kward, I wouldn't consider changing OT and losing the magic.
 
ZOOM said:
If it sounds garbled when you turn it up, it means it is clipping. New iron won't change that, you need more power. I e a different amp. Better yet, though: get new speakers. Efficient ones.
Click to expand...

Considering post #9, I agree this is more likely the solution than different OPTs.

Trying a sub ain't a bad idea either, as has also been suggested.
 
Most of the power will be eaten up by low frequency information. If you can add a sub and cut the bass feeding into the amp, it should free up some power to reproduce the rest of the range. Its still only about 15 watts a channel on a good day though, and I'm not really sure that different transformers will improve on that to any real degree.
 
my 9303 orig OPTs sound great on hi- eff spkers like tekton lore 2, klipsch fortr', altec bolero, sansui 3500. If I feel the need for more bass I just give abit of a kik the the bass tone control and all is peachy with the world. Rarely do I do it tho.
I bought some hammond opts that matched the Z out of the 6bq5s (8k) with 8ohm outputs but have never installed them.
They will go in some other amp.
 
Sounds like the nays and better speakers/subwoofers have it. I'll save that money and put it to better use elsewhere.

My father in law gave me a pair of atlas soundelier coaxial 8 inch, 8ohm speakers that are rated 98 decibels when I started working on this project. I'll lose some power because of the 8 ohms part but would these be an appropriate upgrade. Could I split the original horns and woofers and run these in parallel with one set and series with the other to get to a +4 combination. Each channel would be 8+4=12 and then 1/12+1/4= 1/12+3/12=4/12=1/3=3 nope that won't work. I'd have to series the existing and then parallel. 4+4=8 and then 1/8+1/4=1/8+2/8=3/8=2 something. Nope that won't work either. I suppose this may be a possible good reason to upgrade to multi tap opts.
 
Any recommendations for subwoofers. Would I be looking for a single 4 ohm sub? I'm thinking it would likely need to be housed outside the console. Between space and I'm thinking it would definitely wreak havoc with the turntable. Is there a possibility of upgrading the 12 inch woofers I have and staying in the existing console footprint?

Any suggestions on 12s that would fit the bill?
 
You'd want a powered sub, at that point the impedance wouldn't matter. Outside the console too, it would not play well with the turntable at all.

A lot of the issue isn't just the drivers, its the cabinet itself.
 
I need a pic, but if those are the trafos I think they are, leave them in. You start over complicating these amps and you will kill the magic that started this whole maggy madness.
 
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