Dirty Weekends vs JBL Studio 590

[jazzmans]

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...s-is-really-sort-of-about-studio-590s.889421/
not to hijack this thread.

funny thing is, the Stereophile review of the 1400 array claims the horizontal orientation of your 4365 was an asthetic concession to japan, and Timbers prefers, (and with the 1400 and my 590 did) orient them vertically for superior soundstage.

https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/jbl_synthesis_1400_array_bg_loudspeaker/index.html

When JBL's chief systems designer, Greg Timbers—see —applied vertical horns to the design of speakers for the home, he found that they increased the three-dimensionality of the speakers' soundstaging. However, as Japanese audio critics dislike the appearance of vertical horns, the horns were arrayed horizontally in the flagship K2 models. But, as JBL's Synthesis line was designed for the US market, Timbers was free to stand the midrange horn up again:​

 

[Mister Pig]

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...s-is-really-sort-of-about-studio-590s.889421/
not to hijack this thread.

funny thing is, the Stereophile review of the 1400 array claims the horizontal orientation of your 4365 was an asthetic concession to japan, and Timbers prefers, (and with the 1400 and my 590 did) orient them vertically for superior soundstage.

https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/jbl_synthesis_1400_array_bg_loudspeaker/index.html

When JBL's chief systems designer, Greg Timbers—see —applied vertical horns to the design of speakers for the home, he found that they increased the three-dimensionality of the speakers' soundstaging. However, as Japanese audio critics dislike the appearance of vertical horns, the horns were arrayed horizontally in the flagship K2 models. But, as JBL's Synthesis line was designed for the US market, Timbers was free to stand the midrange horn up again:​

Yes I did read that too, I had a tough time making the decision between the two speakers. However the 1400 used compression drivers and woofers that were considered by JBL aficionados to be inferior to the ones selected for 4365 and above speakers. So I chose what was considered to be the better drivers from JBL folks, but it was a tough choice to make. I like the aesthetics of the 1400 ARRAY, and I am sure I would have been happy with them. But I do tilt my 4365 slightly to get the sound stage height I like, and they do image very well. As I said I bet I would love both of them, and some of those folks do own both pairs, and seem to feel the 4365 are more authentic sounding in terms of tonality...so I defer to their direct experience.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[jazzmans]

Yes I did read that too, I had a tough time making the decision between the two speakers. However the 1400 used compression drivers and woofers that were considered by JBL aficionados to be inferior to the ones selected for 4365 and above speakers. So I chose what was considered to be the better drivers from JBL folks, but it was a tough choice to make. I like the aesthetics of the 1400 ARRAY, and I am sure I would have been happy with them. But I do tilt my 4365 slightly to get the sound stage height I like, and they do image very well. As I said I bet I would love both of them, and some of those folks do own both pairs, and seem to feel the 4365 are more authentic sounding in terms of tonality...so I defer to their direct experience.

Cheers
Mister Pig

Wouldn't it be nice if we could go somewhere and hear the 4365, 1400, and the (in this company) lowly 590 side by side, in the same room, with the same amplification?
Ah well.

fwiw, I still really want to hear a pair of Dirty Weekends.

 

[Mister Pig]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could go somewhere and hear the 4365, 1400, and the (in this company) lowly 590 side by side, in the same room, with the same amplification?
Ah well.

fwiw, I still really want to hear a pair of Dirty Weekends.

U are near Vegas. Isnt every weekend just off the strip a dirty weekend?

 

[Guest159]

Its good you found a cheap pair of speakers you can like.

Cheers
Mister Pig

Yep! It is! Not sure that extra 10% is worth the steep price of entry. Might try to get my hands on some Kanta at some point. We'll see....

2k a pair, not 1k.

If I ever find a pair of the 11k Synthesis 1400, I'll be sure to try them out, but the 590 is 'sort of' the poor mans Synthesis.

They were $500 each up until this weekend.

 

[bruhl001]

You can bet your bottom dollar I'll put my Focal 936's next to a pair of 590 any day of the week, and not only will they look vastly better, they will totally out-class the 590 in sound. The closest competition JBL has to the 936 is the L100 Classic, and those sure wouldn't make me rethink my purchase.



I've never even heard of those guys except Guttenburg, and his opinions are about as beige as opinions get. Yes, their cheaper products are pretty good value for the money, but when Klipsch attempted to play with the big boys in the higher end, they pretty much failed. I wouldn't call the reviews I read on the Palladium series good.

If you really think a $1000 pair of speakers sounds as good as a $5000 pair of speakers, I'm going to guess you've never heard $5000 speakers. $5000 is, in my estimation, the price point where you're getting about 90% of what $20,000 speakers do. I've listened to plenty of roughly $1000 speakers. Ain't no mystery to me why they can't ask more.

Physics doesn't care what you paid for it.....it treats all folks the same

 

[bruhl001]

I think my 4365 will be better in performance.

Cheers
Mister Pig

And my daddy can beat your daddy up

 

[fill35u]

To really know you must first know what speaker curve you gravitate to

If you gravitate towards any kind of "curve", then you aren't interested in accuracy. You prefer something that sounds more pleasing to you, not more faithful.

Toole and today's JBL are interested in accuracy. If you want pleasant coloration, that's your prerogative, just don't call it "high fidelity". Even then it's a lot easier to predict results and add color to a colorless canvas than it is to one that already has coloration.

 

[Mister Pig]

And my daddy can beat your daddy up

My daddy passed on in 2016. I don't think your daddy will be able to get where he is at.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[Mister Pig]

Yep! It is! Not sure that extra 10% is worth the steep price of entry. Might try to get my hands on some Kanta at some point. We'll see....



They were $500 each up until this weekend.

Diminishing returns is a personal tipping point, as it depends on what a listener values, what kind of room they have to work with, and if they can pair up the speakers with appropriate equipment. Upper tier speakers are a two edged sword, as they are revealing at a myriad of levels. Which means you can make them sound terrible or average with the wrong equipment pairings. But if you get it right, then you get glorious sound that you don't hear with lesser speakers. So the point of "diminishing returns" or that last 10% can be difficult to tease out but worth it.

There is an old adage that the DNA make up between chimpanzee and human is 98% the same. They have revised that figure to 95%. So how important is that last 10%? Pretty important in many cases. In systems I have heard, it the difference to hearing music, and experiencing music.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[avguytx]

Boy, this thread went all over the place.

I've said over the last couple of years that "IF" I had an extra grand to buy a pair of new speakers, these were 2 pairs I was curious in the most at that price point. I've not heard either one but do lean more towards the JBL's overall. I built a pair of Klipsch Belle clones a couple years back, which I do enjoy a lot, but have thought about selling off the other smaller and less, to non, used speakers I own to have a pair of either of the two listed. I can buy many different brands of speakers at or below cost having spent close to 30 years in the A/V world but there's just not many I really care to own. Maybe it's a good thing I have tinnitus, in a way, as my point of diminishing returns comes a lot quicker than compared to people who don't have it.

As I read above, and agree with; if you have the ability to buy both and have them sit side by side for the evaluation period, this would be best case scenario as you could see how they react in YOUR room on YOUR existing equipment. Hell, it might turn out that neither pair work in your room.

 

[Mister Pig]

Boy, this thread went all over the place.

I've said over the last couple of years that "IF" I had an extra grand to buy a pair of new speakers, these were 2 pairs I was curious in the most at that price point. I've not heard either one but do lean more towards the JBL's overall. I built a pair of Klipsch Belle clones a couple years back, which I do enjoy a lot, but have thought about selling off the other smaller and less, to non, used speakers I own to have a pair of either of the two listed. I can buy many different brands of speakers at or below cost having spent close to 30 years in the A/V world but there's just not many I really care to own. Maybe it's a good thing I have tinnitus, in a way, as my point of diminishing returns comes a lot quicker than compared to people who don't have it.

As I read above, and agree with; if you have the ability to buy both and have them sit side by side for the evaluation period, this would be best case scenario as you could see how they react in YOUR room on YOUR existing equipment. Hell, it might turn out that neither pair work in your room.

Those Belle are pretty cabinets! I had thought about buying a pair and putting the Fastrax horns in them. I could see them paired up with Leben or Tokyo Sound Labs as a to die for combo.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[bruhl001]

Diminishing returns is a personal tipping point, as it depends on what a listener values, what kind of room they have to work with, and if they can pair up the speakers with appropriate equipment. Upper tier speakers are a two edged sword, as they are revealing at a myriad of levels. Which means you can make them sound terrible or average with the wrong equipment pairings. But if you get it right, then you get glorious sound that you don't hear with lesser speakers. So the point of "diminishing returns" or that last 10% can be difficult to tease out but worth it.

There is an old adage that the DNA make up between chimpanzee and human is 98% the same. They have revised that figure to 95%. So how important is that last 10%? Pretty important in many cases. In systems I have heard, it the difference to hearing music, and experiencing music.

Cheers
Mister Pig

Chimpanzees and dna

Diminishing returns is a personal tipping point, as it depends on what a listener values, what kind of room they have to work with, and if they can pair up the speakers with appropriate equipment. Upper tier speakers are a two edged sword, as they are revealing at a myriad of levels. Which means you can make them sound terrible or average with the wrong equipment pairings. But if you get it right, then you get glorious sound that you don't hear with lesser speakers. So the point of "diminishing returns" or that last 10% can be difficult to tease out but worth it.

There is an old adage that the DNA make up between chimpanzee and human is 98% the same. They have revised that figure to 95%. So how important is that last 10%? Pretty important in many cases. In systems I have heard, it the difference to hearing music, and experiencing music.

Cheers
Mister Pig

Instead of talking about chimpanzees show us where the 10 percent performance difference is in the 500 and 4365

 

[avguytx]

Those Belle are pretty cabinets! I had thought about buying a pair and putting the Fastrax horns in them. I could see them paired up with Leben or Tokyo Sound Labs as a to die for combo.

Cheers
Mister Pig

Thank you sir. I've thought at times about changing them up on the top section to either a 2-way or keep as 3-way with a larger format hid horn versus the K-500. But, they do sound quite good with a new pair of K-33 woofers and the Crites A-55G mid drivers and CT120 tweeters. Never know, though. I've been quite pleased in how they sound using the new Onkyo Reference M-5000R amplifier I bought not long ago. Its 80wpc does good on them and hardly even goes beyond 5 to 10 watts peak with their efficiency.

 

[Mister Pig]

Chimpanzees and dna

Instead of talking about chimpanzees show us where the 10 percent performance difference is in the 500 and 4365

When you hear them you know the differences. The 4365 are a pair of recording studio grade monitors that have nice cabinets for the Japanese domestic market. They use the drivers recording professionals use to master music. Listen and then you will know, this is audio gear after all.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[bruhl001]

When you hear them you know the differences. The 4365 are a pair of recording studio grade monitors that have nice cabinets for the Japanese domestic market. They use the drivers recording professionals use to master music. Listen and then you will know, this is audio gear after all.

Cheers
Mister Pig

Lol

 

[Mister Pig]

Lol

LOL, thats all you got? Typically I don't get involved in these my wiener is the biggest exchanges. But the simple fact is that you spend a lot of time on the AK speaker boards telling folks "what you got is all right, but you really need to own a pair of $5000 Focals to know what audio should sound like." I have seen that over and over, as has more than one other person commenting on it. While a pair of Focal in that price range is nice, they are nowhere near the upper end of speakers, and still leave a lot to be desired. There is more than one website out there where those members have $5000 and more speakers in their bedroom and office systems. Its just all right.

I am sure this post will get deleted later today, but the point is you are an ass. You treat people poorly around here. It should stop. What you are running aint all that, and gives you no right to be a dick to folks around here.

Mister Pig

 

[bruhl001]

LOL, thats all you got? Typically I don't get involved in these my wiener is the biggest exchanges. But the simple fact is that you spend a lot of time on the AK speaker boards telling folks "what you got is all right, but you really need to own a pair of $5000 Focals to know what audio should sound like." I have seen that over and over, as has more than one other person commenting on it. While a pair of Focal in that price range is nice, they are nowhere near the upper end of speakers, and still leave a lot to be desired. There is more than one website out there where those members have $5000 and more speakers in their bedroom and office systems. Its just all right.

I am sure this post will get deleted later today, but the point is you are an ass. You treat people poorly around here. It should stop. What you are running aint all that, and gives you no right to be a dick to folks around here.

Mister Pig[/QUOTE
Because speaker design has been nearly perfected what most people own is good enough. That's an affirmative message whereas I perceive yours as a dismissive one.

 

[fill35u]

Because speaker design has been nearly perfected what most people own is good enough.

That's a relief! Took 'em long enough, who "nearly perfected" speaker design and when did this happen? Must've been a while ago and I missed it, if most people already hopped on that bandwagon. Do those people even know that what they own is "nearly perfect"? How can we check what we already own to find out?

 

[avguytx]

And who are "the ones" that get to decide what's "nearly perfected"?