DLK MODEL 4 Speakers

[dhanson64]

sum other pics of dlk subwoofer an modular 1 speaker's

Hi here's a pic of another version of the very nice dlk subwoofer this other model/version was also made from late 1979 to 1981.Also here are there very nice sounding dlk modular 1 speaker's that were designed specifically to go with there great hand wound dual voice coil subwoofer.The dlk Modular 1 model speaker's contain the very high quality Peerless driver's.Both the 1"softdome Tweeter's n 4 1/2" woofer/driver's are very nice sounding driver's and when crossed over through there awesome dual voice coil sub playing both right an left channel stereo the set up sounded just outstanding! Here's some pics of this great sounding set up and there high quality driver's.Custom CTS dual voice coil woofer an nice all Peerless drivers in Mod 1's.

 

[wilke87]

dlk4

dhanson , when are you going to invite me over to listen to those DLK4 's ????

 

[dhanson64]

Have a pair of early 1 1/2's and a new acquired set of 2's
While I agree they aren't AMT'3s, they are certainly better then midfi, if your willing to do some upgrades-the bass mid bass/lower mids are excellent IMHO.
Some like the CTS tweeter-but IMHO the 1 1/2's and 2's deserve better..

Hi.... How's the resortation coming on those dlk 2's you've been working on, hope there sounding great !!:yes:

 

[automojo]

Restoration complete!!
Interesting on the heavy duty CTS tweeters.
My early 1.5's came with them-one died-I replaced one with the P.E. version, and finally ended up with the Vifas.
The 2's had one fried tweeter as well.
I ended up doing all the l-pads. At $10 ea IMHO not work messing around with.
Currently am liking the P.E. CTS tweeters in the combo. but not so much the bass-especially at lower volumes.
The new surround on the woofer probably needs to loosen up.
I replace the 1.5's damping material with a combination of foam and acoustic stuff (the old stuff was really crumbling).
The bass response on these is excellent.
I still need to look at the cap in the 1.5's but I swear it was a 4.7, not a 10.
It was O.E.

 

[automojo]

I am going to experiment with Ultra Touch (something like the stock stuff) in the 2's, along with some foam.
That seems to be the ticket-mixing materials.

 

[dhanson64]

Hi happy to here you got them all button up, So the bass is not as Strong on them as before ? I thought you posted about them in another thread that they weren't Alnico's but the bass an mid bass was still all there. What happen did the bass drop on both or just the newly repaired woofer?:scratch2:

 

[automojo]

I am going to experiment with Ultra Touch (something like the stock stuff) in the 2's, along with some foam.
That seems to be the ticket-mixing materials.
The dampening in the 2's was not as crumbly as the 1.5's, and fairly intact, but I'm thinking it's not totally doing it's job.

 

[automojo]

Hi happy to here you got them all button up, So the bass is not as Strong on them as before ? I thought you posted about them in another that they weren't Alnico's but the bass an mid bass was still all there. What happen did the bass drop on both or just the newly repaired woofer?:scratch2:

I'm thinking it's the woofer-needs some break in.
This was more of a comparison from the Alnico 1.5's to the 2's.
As a did a direct comparison.
I think the 2's may have a "flatter bass response" , and the 1.5's may have a little hump, but not objectionable.
Some of this is probably the new dampening.
In general you "damp" just before the woofer output goes down, but these 1.5's I damped till they sounded good.
Most woofers I have found need a month or so of break in to sound they way they should.
Hard to compare directly 2x'8s to 1 single 12-they are different-plus sealed to ported.

 

[dhanson64]

Oh I see the damping may not be adjusted just right yet. Ya I've seen that in new foam surrounds on my Ar9's after a few months they did loosen an were more compliant an bass was just great, but haven't seen a breakin issue for cloth but when you do just one woofer I'm sure as you say you can here the difference between the two. Question was the dust cap replaced with the new surround? I know that some shops use dust caps that are more transparent or you can see the slug when looking through the woofer. Dlk mainly used heavy felt type of cap, an if the cap is lighter/thinner material and you can see the voice coil slug through it you might be getting more midrange coming out of the woofer then was originally designed. A heavier thicker felt dust cap filters or dampens some of the midrange, Just a thought I felt I should mention because I've seen repair shops throw something on that doesn't match the originally equipped woofer be it replacement surrounds or dust caps. And I believe the dust caps also can make a difference in the sound. I'm sure you will be able to get them 2's dialed in and adjusted to your liking an sounding great !! :thmbsp: :yes:

 

[automojo]

These both actually had the screened dust caps. I asked Joe@ Midwest if he could keep the O.E. caps.
The look like these, so they are later model, but not the last model-which didn't have the protruding Prime Module.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118504
I probably just need to give them a better listen, and get a better handle on their sound.
They aren't going to sound like the Alnico 1.5's, and looking at my earlier notes (note freak) they have a tighter and flatter bass sound. Clean, but not lean.
Removing some damping, or lining the interior with foam might change this, but may also muddy the bass.
The damping in the ported enclosure is used to tame peaks and flatten the response, as well as the impedance curve, so I may just leave well enough alone for now.
The damping was actually fairly intact, and moving it around to do the repairs didn't cause crumbling like the 1.5's.
In reality the 1.5's probably need a bit more dampening to flatten their response.

 

[dhanson64]

Great you took them to Midwest they do Great repair work!! Joe n Theo are good friends of mine an I been doing business with Midwest sense the early 1980's @ that time an old timer owned it before them and he new an was very close to Don K. They would do a lot of re- coning repairs for local bands an he would hand wound all his own voice coils in house as well,they also handled/did all the warranty/ repairs on dlk/domus after their factory close the doors, great little repair shop . That's when they were on Snelling Avenue n hwy 94 not far from the old dlk factory before they moved to Mendota Heights location. Ya I've seen a few pics of some of the 12" woofer's with the transparent dust caps and or odd/not matching or mix matched with different felt dust caps on the 2's. Most of them were just before they switched to the last run grey paper cone woofer's with cloth surrounds. If it were me I would think about replacing them with heavy felt, it would not hurt to just try taping another set of heavy felt dust caps over the transparent caps to knock some of the mids down like they used on their older dlk 2's green basket 12" woofer's, they all used the heavy felt dust caps making those voice coils more air tight an not as leaky. Also it may pump more bass out the port as well as less midrange coming out the woofer's. I'd try that and if it's the ticket you can then just permently glue them right over the top of the existing dust caps. I know Joe n Theo will give you the caps for free. Let me know how it all works out.

 

[automojo]

Yep great guys.
That's where I picked up my 2nd set of ESS AMT3's, traded out my KG 5.5's.

 

[automojo]

After playing these for a hour or so the bass has come back.
Who knows?
I know they hadn't been played in years.
With a fried tweeter, and a cap that was laying in the bottom- and old crusty l-pad-they sound horrible.
I may try the felt caps as suggested, there is some lower mids coming out of the woofer but I'm thinking I may leave well enough alone as the voicing and tonality is excellent.
The woofers look like CTS, but not positive-they are well built, heavy silver frame and 2 inch flat style voice coil.
Once I get my PA2400 back from a check up, I bet they will sound even better, as it has more bass drive then the 100wpc PA2200.
They deserve some clean abundant power-forget the Magnum 100 power...
Looking at the caps in the stock value was 8.2uf-a early pair with silver caps-I will try the 4.7 and shore up the connections, as they are basically wires twisted and soldered together and are a bit to short to make driver removal easy.
I also noticed I have a air leak in one 1.5, so this may account for the extra bass.
Not sure where-I don't recall it the last time I had the woofers out-as I usually do the push woofer test.
The L-pads on these are much better quality then the stock one on the 2's.
At some point I will get a couple 4-ohm CTS tweeters and try them out again.
I have one good O.E. one-but I don't think they match up as well with the new reproductions.
I'm happy with they way they turned out and they will fill nicely till I finish my AMT3's, and will be a good speaker for rotation after that.

 

[automojo]

.
Hi MJB1959 thanks for posting, I totally Understand why you an other's may call dlk's mid-hifi speaker's, everyone has there own perspective on how they sound and that's ok. I would just interject that IMHO I feel those who feel there dlk speaker's are sounding just like a mid-hif speaker is because they are No longer in proper factory form/specfcations. Those speaker's sounding flat muddy an or boomy an muffled are most likely very tired 30/35yr. Speaker's that are no longer in spec. I'm in 100% agreement with automojo that on most model's where there performance is poor in sound quality it's most likely do to the dampening material being bad n or disintegrating to dust and thee L Pads that are no longer in spec and maybe down a dp or 2 in output from very poor condition and not connecting properly. I've posted this before that the the L pad's and dampening material are most likely the main causes for poor sound followed by the caps being out of spec, you can't judge a pad's performance just because it has no static or turns freely and what I can't emphasize enough on these an other dlk speakers is that all drivers woofers/mids an Tweeter's are all wired in running through these pad's. There needs to be a proper good electrical connection that's reliable to get the proper midrange and treble out of these great speakers. Like he says adjust the dampening material accordingly or replace it if needed. If your positive there flat sounding or muffled in sound quality after adjusting or redampening check the L-pads if good just clean them pad's an replace caps if they're out of spec get new ones.Doing this will be getting them back to the way they were designed from the factory. Do that an you will be impressed with their sound quality, but that said some dome tweeters are great sounding an great to try butit can be hit or miss on matching the voicing up so IMO if the Speaker's are in proper working form there's nothing wrong with the CTS cone tweeters there voiced with the woofers an mids an also with the L pad's and crossovers/ dampening fixed or adjusted to the way they're supposed to be and all is working properly they're very nice sounding Speaker's in my opinion. Also back in the day right from their factory on the 1 1/2's they were factory capped with a 10.0 uf 50volt cap to take the now obsolete and very hard to find heavier duty CTS cone tweeters model number 1008 having alittle heavier 12oz magnet's on them an with the 1" voice coils an 10.0 Micro farad cap they were matched up well with the woofers and that's why they croosed them over lower then their other models in there line. But most of the older 1 1/2's don't have there original 1" voice coil Tweeter's still in them an some people just replace them with 1003 a lighter duty version of this tweeter that has a 3/4" voice coil 10oz mag. Also as well when all other speakers in their line were using a 4.7 cap when crossing the tweeters over to a higher freq most of the cone tweeters now are the 3/4" voice coil type and do not put out as much midrange as the older 1" coil Tweeter's and IMO that's making those 1 1/2's sound a little flat an muddy. If it were me I would change that cap to what I prefer which is a 4.7uf 50v cap that came in all their other models from the dlk 1/2's to 3/4's to the model 1's/2's/3's and be in heaven with the sound but that's just my opinion here.

Just looking at this-I may have this wrong.
But if your crossing a 4ohm tweeter with a 4.7 cap-your looking @ 8400hz-which would be too high.
The 10 uf with a 4ohm tweeter will give you 4000hz, about where it should be.
The stock 8.3uf (in mine) slightly higher.
The 1 1/2's mostly used 4ohm tweeters (along with the 1's), while the Model 2's ways usually used 8ohm-the 3's a Phillips Dome
The screened tweeter 1.5's used a 8ohm Altec version.
Even with the older Alnico 8's I cant imagine they have good response @ 8000hz
Now that I look back @ my parts-I did mistakenly recap it @ 4.7, as I was too lazy to pull the old glued cap (I think I asked someone here)-I didn't sound too good, and I pulled the old cap and replaced it with the 8.3 uf.
Thans

 

[dhanson64]

Butler

Just looking at this-I may have this wrong.
But if your crossing a 4ohm tweeter with a 4.7 cap-your looking @ 8400hz-which would be too high.
The 10 uf with a 4ohm tweeter will give you 4000hz, about where it should be.
The stock 8.3uf (in mine) slightly higher.
The 1 1/2's mostly used 4ohm tweeters (along with the 1's), while the Model 2's ways usually used 8ohm-the 3's a Phillips Dome
The screened tweeter 1.5's used a 8ohm Altec version.
Even with the older Alnico 8's I cant imagine they have good response @ 8000hz
Now that I look back @ my parts-I did mistakenly recap it @ 4.7, as I was too lazy to pull the old glued cap (I think I asked someone here)-I didn't sound too good, and I pulled the old cap and replaced it with the 8.3 uf.
Thans

Hi hope your doing well automojo, to my knowledge the only dlk speakers that did come factory standard with the 4ohm Tweeter's were the model 1 1/2's n possibly the moduler 1's there also a 4ohm speaker's but I have never opened one up to confirm the model Tweeter's they used on the Modular 1's. All other dlk's to my knowledge the model 1's/ 2's/3's/4's all took the standard 8ohm Tweeter's from the factory when new. The 1 1/2's had a lot of different version's an even different series with in a version that was currently in production that took both a 4ohm an some very rare model's did come with the 8ohm Tweeter's as standard. Also to my knowledge most all model 1 1/2's crossover's that I've ever seen came standard right from the factory with a 10.0 cap 50volt which was blue in color, however on the older original early version model of the 1 1/2's they could have came with the 8.3 silver cap you mentioned, All dlk model 1/2's/3's used/ had a 4.7 50 volt cap standard right from the factory when crossing over to the Tweeter's. Also as far as how when using a 10.0 or 4.7 50volt cap
Changes the crossover's freq base on what ohm Tweeter's were used like you say 4ohm or 8ohm version I'm honestly not an engineer when it comes to these kinds of parameters to know how differently ohm'ed Tweeter's can change a crossover points. When I say I personally would change the 10.0 50volt to a 4.7 is because the 1" voice coil Tweeter's for these are almost impossible to find now a days and the 3/4" voice coil Tweeter's that are so commonly found today in my opinion would sound better @ the 3k hrz point like the 1's/2's/3's. But if what your saying is true when using a 4 ohm tweeter with a 4.7 cap would set the crossover's point around 8k that's just way to high an they would sound like crap in that two way.So maybe with those 3/4" voice coils Tweeter's being so common now thee answer maybe would be to just go with the 8ohm version 3/4" coil Tweeter's matched up to the 4.7 50vlot cap an be crossing over right about @ 3kherz like on the 1's/2's/3's, bring them sounding closer factory spec's, if what your saying is true about the 8k Herz point. But hey we always can learn an expand are knowledge none including me knows everything, we always can learn an gather new information that's why I like that you fiddle around with these in experiment can lead to sum improvements or modern drivers that work great in these old vintage speakers.thanks for all your input on this it's much appreciated.:thmbsp:

 

[automojo]

Sure, me either.
A lot of this was in the past, and I started recalling what I had done earlier- and say the old poly cap I originally had installed.
I don't know much of this either, just with experience, and I have a cheat sheet that shows the relative crossover point with different driver loads.
I think a lot of why the DLK sound bad has to do with old caps, and bad l-pads.
I think a lot of people give up, and don't realize for less the $20 per crossover-you can make the 1.5's sing.
My early model 1.5's have much better quality l-pads-totally sealed and they work perfect-just like new.
Seems most of the CTS style tweeters where 8ohm-Altec Marantz etc-so they are hard to find the larger older 4-ohm models.
Good news is the 4ohm reproductions sound good, slightly hotter then the old ones-but that's what the l-pad is for.
I appreciate all the good DLK info, as it's been extremely helpful!:thmbsp:
I'm currently appreciating the 2's-backing off the mids and tweets l-pads 1/2 turn has really made a difference and brought the bass inline.
I love vintage speakers and the fact they make this type of adjustment so easy-as every room and system is different.
IMHO people go to great lengths padding driver when a l-pad easily does the trick.
These new Yung units are excellent quality.

 

[dhanson64]

I was able to take a tour of the dlk factory back in 1978 with my Dad who was at that time a local professional musician, we went there to pick up those dlk 4's he custom ordered in late December of 77an later gave me.They have 4 Custom made CTS 12" woofer's with Alnico magnet's and they Sound exceptional an are unbelievably smooth with deep bass and crystal clear natural sounding mids and highs the voicing on these is to die for.Also they have a very super wide soundstage. Simply put just a magnificent sounding pair of basically handmade speakers! I learned a lot about there line an spent many hrs @ Schaak Elec in Maplewood Mall in my teens. Loved there speaker's an HK gear.Also went upstairs to Team electronics they sold/pushed the jbl 112's big time an there nice But They are not dlk 4's ! There a whole knew animal here.Then there was the great Sound of Music Audio store across the street in the little strip mall they sold a lot of Ar/Bose/Genesis an tons of Onkyo an highend gear like Haffler/Phase Linear /Threshold, they eventually became n are the Best Buy we have today. If you haven't heard the dlk 4's then it's really kind of hard to comment on them, you have to actually here a pair in proper factory working order to understand how great these really sound. In my opinion the dlk 4's are in a short list of truly great sounding speakers that were all Custom Designed and basically hand made for sale to the public, but also were designed an used for commercial use in many disco dance halls an radio /studios. Don would build them custom made 2 application, basically meaning he would design them for whatever need you had.He was a brilliant designer of loudspeakers! :thmbsp: :yes:

 

[automojo]

Cool.
I also spent more then a few hours @ Schaack-Sound World-Team- and Allied Radio.
Schaack was my favorite for sure.
Bought a SX750 there, Omegas 300',s Garrad DD75 Accutrac Turntable, Grundig car stereo among other things.
Always liked the DLK's and H/K stuff.
And the headphone tree.
I found this link pretty cool, brings back memories.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8250422&postcount=1
Loved the Sunday paper ads.
Perhaps some DLK 4's are in the future-who knows.
Never heard or saw them (as I recall).
Always liked the 1 1/2's which IMHO was there best all around buy for the money.
When I stumbled across a early set of Alnico 1.'5s I snapped them up
Once properly refurbed and upgraded, these early models will IMHO give comparably sized current speaker a serious run for the money.
No need for a sub here-plenty of clean bass from the twin 8" woofers.
I can't recall any speakers this size-new or old with this type of clean bass.
IMHO the tweeter upgrade really moves them up in class-MO of course.
At some point I will get a set of Peerless Plate tweeters from Midwest-as these where part of a limited run of DLK 1.5's.

 

[dhanson64]

Forsure back in their day the older versions of the dlk 1 1/2's were used in a lot of recording studios here locally an throughout the Midwest, they were known to be accurate speaker's that didn't have a hotter top end like the JBLs of the same period. Don use to say that his speaker's were very accurate an very easy listening speakers that would not cause listener fatigue meaning they didn't have an exaggerated hot top end like other manufacturers they were neutral. Like you I feel the best sounding 1 1/2's were the Alnico version's. Not that the ceramic mag drivers sound bad or anything their very nice sounding woofer's its just that they don't seam to have that warmth or as smooth midrange as the Alnico nor have the low frq bass output but as a general rule those dlk Ceramic mag woofer's can handle more power then those Alnico's which maybe why you are able to over drive your 1 1/2's as you say. But everyone has there own perspective and which they prefer. :yes:

 

[electronjohn]

I installed numerous pairs of 1 1/2s in radio stations...in both the on-air studios as well as the production studios. Jocks LOVED 'em...they'd get crazy loud & still sound great. I saved plenty of $$$ using them...since they could be traded out at Schaak. I could then spend more $$$ on monitor amps