rcspkramp
Super Member
Isn't prat a British insult?
Ben aka MacKat
Only a git would use the word prat.
Do I have "PRAT"??
- Thread starter 62sunbeam
- Start date
Only a git would use the word prat.
That's TWiT, just gotta figire out what the acronym means :scratch2:
Pio1980
AK Member
TWiT, Traveling Wave Tube, used in transcontinental microwave towers IIRC.
I must add one of those to each of my turntables, so I can possess both PRaT and TWiT.
62sunbeam
Raconteur
It's funny the legs this post has.
It was kind of rhetorical, the original question. Kind of like: I'm really enjoying my nice TT and other components and is this wonderful sound I hear that thing they call "PRaT?"
I mean I have or have had some really nice TTs. Some of them the kind that supposedly capable of achieving this lofty (if somewhat pretentious) goal of PRaT and I have consistently found that these few decks I've held onto outperform these other PRaT capable decks. What do I have then Super PRaT?
This new combination is really nice, I'm enjoying Mark Knopfler "Kill For Crimson" on it as I write right now and the sound is rich and realistic and for lack a of a better word palpable. I feel the music. Not just it's low notes but it's resonance and texture across the scale.
Great stuff! Just thought I'd share.
I'm going to make a cocktail.
Have a wonderful evening.
Eric
It was kind of rhetorical, the original question. Kind of like: I'm really enjoying my nice TT and other components and is this wonderful sound I hear that thing they call "PRaT?"
I mean I have or have had some really nice TTs. Some of them the kind that supposedly capable of achieving this lofty (if somewhat pretentious) goal of PRaT and I have consistently found that these few decks I've held onto outperform these other PRaT capable decks. What do I have then Super PRaT?
This new combination is really nice, I'm enjoying Mark Knopfler "Kill For Crimson" on it as I write right now and the sound is rich and realistic and for lack a of a better word palpable. I feel the music. Not just it's low notes but it's resonance and texture across the scale.
Great stuff! Just thought I'd share.
I'm going to make a cocktail.
Have a wonderful evening.
Eric
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rcspkramp
Super Member
I'm guessing SPLaT means "Sound Pressure Levels at Tip-top"... right?
Exactly!
phildoc
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread. Compared to many of the TT on this forum I was thinking that my TT and setup had SQUAT, but considering I have a PF800, little brother to the OP's maybe I have PRAT too.
Although the thread has developed into the usually camps disagreeing with each other it did help me better understand what PRAT is suppose to be, which I had always thought of as a ill defined term used mainly to help market a TT that had no other reason to be better than someone else's TT. Used for that purpose the more subjective a term is the better. I never gave it much more thought.
Now it seems a little more like a term developed in an attempt to describe that aspect of audio gear which there seems to be no way to measure why one sounds better than another than a marketing gimmick. The info about brain damage also helped explain my sudden change in music taste after the anoxic brain injury I suffered because of my MI.
Although the thread has developed into the usually camps disagreeing with each other it did help me better understand what PRAT is suppose to be, which I had always thought of as a ill defined term used mainly to help market a TT that had no other reason to be better than someone else's TT. Used for that purpose the more subjective a term is the better. I never gave it much more thought.
Now it seems a little more like a term developed in an attempt to describe that aspect of audio gear which there seems to be no way to measure why one sounds better than another than a marketing gimmick. The info about brain damage also helped explain my sudden change in music taste after the anoxic brain injury I suffered because of my MI.
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PRaT is actually the synergy of a system including room acoustics although Ivor et al decided to use it primarily on TTs and anything of British origin; hence the snob factor.
Although many of today's streophiles believe that in the 60's & 70's it was all about measurements that's really not true either as I have many publications from that era that make constant reference to audible performance above specifications (unmeasurable aura) regardless of what was being evaluated.
By sheer chance a system at any price point can have PRaT; that said careful selection and a hefty budget will better your odds considerably.
Although many of today's streophiles believe that in the 60's & 70's it was all about measurements that's really not true either as I have many publications from that era that make constant reference to audible performance above specifications (unmeasurable aura) regardless of what was being evaluated.
By sheer chance a system at any price point can have PRaT; that said careful selection and a hefty budget will better your odds considerably.
gusten
Addicted Member
In post #8 I wrote that PRaT is made up, and it doesn´t mean anything.
I got some critic for this as apparently is was well defined and also the exact meaning was very clear among most of us.
It should be no surprise that sticking to what I wrote is the only safe choice for me. It cannot mean all these different proposals, then it has no meaning.
gusten
I got some critic for this as apparently is was well defined and also the exact meaning was very clear among most of us.
It should be no surprise that sticking to what I wrote is the only safe choice for me. It cannot mean all these different proposals, then it has no meaning.
gusten
It is made up and because it's not measurable it is subject to interpretation, exploitation and any other 'ation' you can think of... sorta like faith.
A component can measure really well, but sound like crap...
As far as I'm concerned, the term PRaT (Pace, Rhythm and Timing) is just another way to describe attributes of elements of the sound.
Really, a system can have incredible detail retrieval and image well with heaps of bass slam, but with all this can still sound as boring as bat **** at the same time, if it lacks certain other attributes!
For myself these elements and some others get us to that point where the sound is often called "musical"
A little OT, but something I found while on this journey is that a lot of detail in some systems (including mine in the past) presentation is artificial, but many folk still enjoy and strive to have it.
Hmm...end rant
As far as I'm concerned, the term PRaT (Pace, Rhythm and Timing) is just another way to describe attributes of elements of the sound.
Really, a system can have incredible detail retrieval and image well with heaps of bass slam, but with all this can still sound as boring as bat **** at the same time, if it lacks certain other attributes!
For myself these elements and some others get us to that point where the sound is often called "musical"
A little OT, but something I found while on this journey is that a lot of detail in some systems (including mine in the past) presentation is artificial, but many folk still enjoy and strive to have it.
Hmm...end rant
62sunbeam
Raconteur
So one could say that "PRaT" is a combination of accuracy AND musicality. A combination of technical balance between components that renders a system emminantly listenable and enjoyable. Not necessarily the sole bastion of systems costing well into the thousands or that automatically require idler wheels?
Eric
Eric
Pio1980
AK Member
I find that I can hear much 'deeper' into a recording with my latest TT project and all the desirable "musical" attributes are so enhanced that it is quite unlike the other TTs I have at present. The detailing is in contextual proportion and not in-your-face enhanced as is often the case.
Yes, Eric.... the elements described as PRaT are what we have when we get the engaging sound that gets the foot a tapping, in my view 
Musicality has this and a touch more, like true to life tones, and many layers to each beat of a drum, or string pluck and a voice ect'. We get it when the timing is spot on in the signals journey from source material to speakers, and every part in the system plays It's part in this.
Just my view, and I have some of this in my system now, but I lost much of it for a while when changing cheapish parts in my amp out for better ones... but I'm gaining much of it again with selective part choices plus the benefits of truer tones and more textured tones, still on the journey.
Now, where did i put that asbestos jump suit that I might need right about now :tongue:
PIO1980, sounds good :thmbsp:
Edit:typos & grammar
Musicality has this and a touch more, like true to life tones, and many layers to each beat of a drum, or string pluck and a voice ect'. We get it when the timing is spot on in the signals journey from source material to speakers, and every part in the system plays It's part in this.
Just my view, and I have some of this in my system now, but I lost much of it for a while when changing cheapish parts in my amp out for better ones... but I'm gaining much of it again with selective part choices plus the benefits of truer tones and more textured tones, still on the journey.
Now, where did i put that asbestos jump suit that I might need right about now :tongue:
PIO1980, sounds good :thmbsp:
Edit:typos & grammar
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Naptown Rob
Ponographer
I am reminded of the 4 blind men describing an elephant.:scratch2:
Back to my original questions:
Eric,
What cart are you using, and is that the KAB record stabilizer I see on your deck?
Back to my original questions:
Eric,
What cart are you using, and is that the KAB record stabilizer I see on your deck?