Dual 1257 vs Philips GA 312? Which is better?
- Thread starter Isaac C.
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Anyway you can play them side by side? Not sure but the Phillips likely will beat the Dual.
Isaac C.
Cat Hoarder
Unfortunately not, my biggest complaint with my Dual is that it has a lot of mechanical noise that the stylus picks up, I'm wanting something quieter. I have heard that the Philips 212 and 312 are decent units.
62vauxhall
Addicted Member
I've liked Duals for a long time. Fixed then sold or gave away quite a few but still have and will be keeping two 1009's. My belief is that Dual offered about the best performance to cost ratios of any turntables they were pitted against. The numbers of them sold world wide must certainly testify to that.
There other tables in my assortment like a couple of Elac's, a Zero 100 and a BSR McDonald 810 which has a good dose of Elac in it.
Of that bunch I have, Duals are the most understood and I find, the easiest to work on.
But I've never had a Philips. I would without hesitation buy one if it presented itself and if I found it attractive.
My curiosity does not pay at all times as in when a BIC crossed my path. Not impessed and would not waste time/money on another.
Would definitely like to get hold of a Philips some time though.
There other tables in my assortment like a couple of Elac's, a Zero 100 and a BSR McDonald 810 which has a good dose of Elac in it.
Of that bunch I have, Duals are the most understood and I find, the easiest to work on.
But I've never had a Philips. I would without hesitation buy one if it presented itself and if I found it attractive.
My curiosity does not pay at all times as in when a BIC crossed my path. Not impessed and would not waste time/money on another.
Would definitely like to get hold of a Philips some time though.
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
Lots of plastic in both. The two reasons I prefer this Dual over the Philips is no complex electronics and real bearings in the arm. The Dual can be just as quiet (almost). The Philips plater is stamped steel and the Dual, I believe is not much different.
ttbccw
Active Member
I can't speak to what's "better", but I have used a Philips 312 as my main table for 15 years or so. There are some differences to consider between the two. The Dual has a much better design for the tonearm/pivot. The one on the Philips is simple and not very fluid. The tonearm is the only thing about the Philips that could be better. The LED touch buttons on the 312 are nice, and the electronics aren't that complicated...but should be checked because it uses a photo-sensor for the "end of record" stop and the VR has to be adjusted or the table won't stop at the end of the record. The tonearm base is also attached to a sub-platter on the 312/212. So when you jostle the arm it rocks the platter. It's suspended by springs. When playing a record it helps keep vibration down, but you have to wait for the jitters to stop before you put the needle down on the record after taking it off the tonearm rest. I think the 312 sounds really good. I guess it depends on what you like for functionality, if you can try out the 312 that might help you decide.
I also have a BIC 960...and when it works sounds great...but that's when it works right...those are a whole other story.
I also have a BIC 960...and when it works sounds great...but that's when it works right...those are a whole other story.
Isaac C.
Cat Hoarder
Thanks for the replies everyone! Some other units I'm considering are:
Technics SL 1100 (I know this demands a nice price)
Technics SL-1600 (family friend has one he would sell me)
Akai 206, 207, 306, or 307
JVC QL 10, 8, A7, 7, 5 (I know these demand a nice price as well and have a lot more electronics)
Hitachi 460, 840, or 860
Dual 701 (pricey), 714q, 721, 731q
Sanyo TP-1000
Of these do any stick out as being a better choice than the others?
Thanks!
Technics SL 1100 (I know this demands a nice price)
Technics SL-1600 (family friend has one he would sell me)
Akai 206, 207, 306, or 307
JVC QL 10, 8, A7, 7, 5 (I know these demand a nice price as well and have a lot more electronics)
Hitachi 460, 840, or 860
Dual 701 (pricey), 714q, 721, 731q
Sanyo TP-1000
Of these do any stick out as being a better choice than the others?
Thanks!
62vauxhall
Addicted Member
Kind of gone off topic and now all over the map.
When firing blind, start with the heaviest and work your way down. That's as good a parameter as any with that many choices.
Can only speak of having personal experience with one of the candidates - the 701. Nice table.
When firing blind, start with the heaviest and work your way down. That's as good a parameter as any with that many choices.
Can only speak of having personal experience with one of the candidates - the 701. Nice table.
I think a lot of the difference would be your tolerance of rumble. Duals are pretty good for changers, but ball races are intrinsically noisier than single point bearings. The arm bearings in the Dual are better than those in the Philips, but I'm not sure you could hear any difference. For what it's worth, the Philips 212, which is essentially similar to the 312, was The Absolute Sound's alternative to the AR for best entry level table back in the 70s. Whether it was snobbism or actual sound quality that kept them from recommending the Duals, I don't know.
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
This is funny enough to elicit laughs. An entire turntable is just two main items, a rotating platter and a TONEARM.
ttbccw
Active Member
It is funny. The only reason I still use it is because when it's playing the record it sounds great. Nice and quiet, good sound stage. It's the function of the arm when you cue the record or remove the record. See, let's say the center hole of the lp fits rather snug around the spindle. Some newly pressed records sometimes do this. With the Philips when you wiggle the lp off the platter, since it's mechanically coupled to the tonearm base, the tonearm flings around! That's funny. I do plan on an upgrade soon, but most mid fi tables have something. The OP says the dual rumbles, the Philips has a weird platter/tonearm coupled, the BIC has parts that don't actuate well in the speed selector...always something. And these are $100 to $200 used? Maybe?
My next table is definitely going to have a mechanically separate tonearm
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Get the Technics SL-1100 if you can afford it, if not the SL-1600 is a superb alternative. In good order, nice performers, durable, and should outlast those Dual models. The Dual 1257 was not one of their better changers. If this was a Dual 1009, 1019, 1209, 1218, 1219, or 1229, You'd have a winner. But Duals tend to be more complex mechanically, and more needy on regular use and maintenance. JVC do your research on, some of them are superb. But more complex. But in top shape they perform well.
Isaac C.
Cat Hoarder
I bought the 1257 for $50 with a new stylus as my first turntable last year. It plays records, but there are definitely better tables out there. I didn't want to spend a lot at first to make sure this would be an enjoyable hobby, but man it sure is! Now I am in the process of selling my "intro" gear and upgrading. If I can't find any of the other models listed, I likely get the 1600 from a family friend, he just upgraded so he doesn't need it anymore.
UncleBingo
Super Member
I can vouch for the JVC QL-A7. Just watch for the drooping counterweight syndrome.
^^^^this looks like my shop and the way I see things. Liked Duals.Many 1219s here. I see you have a BSR 810. Never seen a working one until this one showed up. How is the motor on yours? My 810 is a little noisy. Have had Elacs too and have a Zero 100.. have not owed a Phillips. Did have one in for service this year. To the OP, my Verdict is Dual. Like Seth (notransistors) said the Dual is mechanical. That is a plus. Worked on many Duals. They always have the same issues. Clean and lube, good to go most of the time. Deals are out there. My last 1219 was $100. Base dust cover with Pickering XV15 cart. Serviced it. Lives on my bench next to the BSR 810. It’s a nice one. Looks new. Enjoying them while I work on stuff. Good luck in your search OP.
The 'weird platter/tonearm coupled' is a suspended subchassis. Generally considered to offer significant benefits in terms of isolation, though it does mean that if you have to pry the record off the spindle, the arm bounces wildly (the Philips is an also ran in this competition since AR retired the jersey with the XA, which had exactly the RIAA or some other specified spindle size - no margin at all for imperfect records - that meant that many records were practically impossible to remove), and foot falls can be unpredictable in their affect.
The vertical arm bearings in the Philips arm are just a shaft in plastic inserts with diamond shaped aperture, but they seem to work well, perhaps acting like knife bearings. The Dual's ball bearing pivots are better, as long as they are properly adjusted - if they are not, they could be worse, I suppose.
The vertical arm bearings in the Philips arm are just a shaft in plastic inserts with diamond shaped aperture, but they seem to work well, perhaps acting like knife bearings. The Dual's ball bearing pivots are better, as long as they are properly adjusted - if they are not, they could be worse, I suppose.
