I have the RP W70Ds and I think the pots on mine are turned up a little bit (say maybe 2 o'clock, if 12 o'clock is the center of travel - I have no knobs out of four so there's a bit of guesswork involved) and that sound about right. I'm using non-stock tweeters and 15 uF caps rather than 16 uF in the crossovers, so I expected to have to do a little manipulation to make them sound "right." I was glad that with a little knob twiddling I could achieve that.
Early Wharfedale W70's - Biggles' dream is realized!
- Thread starter drbiggles
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I have the RP W70Ds and I think the pots on mine are turned up a little bit (say maybe 2 o'clock, if 12 o'clock is the center of travel - I have no knobs out of four so there's a bit of guesswork involved) and that sound about right. I'm using non-stock tweeters and 15 uF caps rather than 16 uF in the crossovers, so I expected to have to do a little manipulation to make them sound "right." I was glad that with a little knob twiddling I could achieve that.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Yeah, they're addicting like a drug, aren't they? That midrange and that open, living/breathing tone that brings music to life? I've spoken to a lot of people (in private messages) who've bought W90's, W70's, and W60's over the past few years, and they all say the same thing. The old Wharfedales have got to be the most-addicting speakers ever made. Gilbert Briggs was a hardcore music-lover. That's what drove him to start experimenting with loudspeakers, which were very-limited in terms of performance back in the late 1920's and early 1930's. He designed Wharfedale drivers himself for the first twenty years and essentially shaped that classic Wharfedale sound as you and I know it. He took on some expert help here and there over the years, but it all centered around the kind of sound that he preferred. The guy had good ears. I feel I really owe him a lot of thanks for that. I could never afford to be an Altec addict. Mr. Briggs saved my hi-fi life.
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Agreed! I don't know, but it sounds like he designed speakers by how they sound. Maybe not so much with a slide-rule, charts and graphs. He wanted to hear music in a certain way, then designed the speakers to sound like that.
Since yesterday's little audition, I've had some thoughts rattling around in my head. I like the highs and mids of the W70's. Mulling over how to take that sound and install it to a much larger cabinet with maybe a W15 or similar.
I've still got a load of ceramic Super 3's, 2 Alnico 10" mid bass drivers from an early W70, a W15, 2 1963 W70 crossovers and others. W90's continue to elude me.
Biggles
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
You bought the book Cabinet Handbook, didn't you? Or was that someone else? I talk to so many people about this stuff, it's hard to keep track. Have you contemplated attempting one of the DIY designs from that? Mixing and matching is totally-doable, judging by the comments from Brazil65 regarding his "Franken-90's", each of which had two alnico W12's (taken from early W60's, I think), two ceramic W90 mids, and a single Audax TWO25AO tweeter.
Oh, and yes, you're right. He designed by ear at least as much as he did by mathematics and theory.
Oh, and yes, you're right. He designed by ear at least as much as he did by mathematics and theory.
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I missed that build, I'll see if I can find it. YEAH. Yes, I have the 1966 Cabinet Handbook and have considered a dyi situation. I've got a lot of ideas rattling around in my head, and it changes from month to month. Right now, with how the W70's highs and mids sound, my thought is to use 2 W70 enclosures for just that and remove the woofer. Then, build 2 Wharfedale bass bins. The only reason for that is the highs and mids are so f-ing well designed I didn't want to mess with the design. Leave well enough alone, eh?
Biggles
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Your W70 woofers should open up a lot, I think, but it sounds like something could be amiss inside, either with the wiring or the woofers themselves. Even the W60 can handle an upright bass. And the alnico W12 woofers themselves are quite-capable (The bass shouldn't be any worse than what you hear from your Super 12's, especially considering the fact that the upper-mids and highs are being handled by other drivers rather than a single driver).
Did you get any listening time with your OTHER W70's before you decided to go switching the drivers? And if yes, how was the sound in comparison to what you're hearing with the swap-job pair?
The Franken-90's came out of Brazil65 purchase of what originally were W90's, that is, until he opened them up and found nothing but Pyle drivers throughout (Can you imagine?). He had a fellow AK'er (former AK'er now) help with the driver replacement acquisitions as well the installation and rewiring. Do a google search for "Brazil65 W90's Audiokarma", and you should hopefully find it.
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Har har, I found the thread easily. And, apparently posted a few comments there too. I remember it now. Nice to re-read.
No, no listening time with my original W70's. The Super 3's were mismatched, one was a foam surround and was gone. I put a ceramic Super 3 in it and shelved it. I pretty much knew the first test drive of the updated W70's would be dicey. Actually, I'm surprised they worked as well as they did. The wiring is solid.
Good to know and agreed with the W12's. They probably haven't been listened to since the original foam surround Super 3 died.
At least the tweeters and mids are working as they should. I can work with the woofers whether they need to be replaced or not, no big deal.
Biggles
On a semi-related note, I found this image back from my Super 12 project. The factory tested mine down to 38 cycles/Hz. At least I believe cycles and Hz are interchangeable. That's pretty darned awesome for a full range driver made back in 1959. Of course this will have changed since I used a modern foam surround replacement.
Biggles
Biggles
Hey! Well, that's great news. The woofers are no longer breaking up on the lows. The drivers all test as working just fine, which means the work I did passed muster.
However, I'm still missing quite a bit of bass. I don't know if it's the limitation of the speakers, or the placement. Since I can't do any more with the speaker's inards, am going to spend the next however long working on placement.
As they are, most everyone would give them 14 thumbs up. The issue is, I'm comparing them to the Super 12's. Which may come down to cabinet size. The Super 12's have a little over 4 cubic feet to play with, not sure where the W70's come in. If I had to describe to you what I'm hearing, it sounds a lot like a bookshelf speaker. You know the ones? They sound great, they're just missing that extra warm, low love that melts your skull. Something the Rectilinear III's do in spades.
It could also be they need more break-in time. I'll keep pounding on them and try them as suggested previously in this thread.
Busy busy busy!
Biggles
However, I'm still missing quite a bit of bass. I don't know if it's the limitation of the speakers, or the placement. Since I can't do any more with the speaker's inards, am going to spend the next however long working on placement.
As they are, most everyone would give them 14 thumbs up. The issue is, I'm comparing them to the Super 12's. Which may come down to cabinet size. The Super 12's have a little over 4 cubic feet to play with, not sure where the W70's come in. If I had to describe to you what I'm hearing, it sounds a lot like a bookshelf speaker. You know the ones? They sound great, they're just missing that extra warm, low love that melts your skull. Something the Rectilinear III's do in spades.
It could also be they need more break-in time. I'll keep pounding on them and try them as suggested previously in this thread.
Busy busy busy!
Biggles
Extended Bass and extended highs were always my issues with my Warfie W70 D's they never had much of either beyond mid bass and kinda ok but not accuratate mid range and othewise are not flat or accurate speakers at all.
You either like them or hate them or someting in between for me they would just be only nostagia with no illusions of critical listening they were never up to that even when they were new unless its ~ 1956 vinyl maytbe 1959 stereo on stretch good 70's vinyl can tax them trust me .
Old Warfies are the most sterotypical laid back british speakesr I've heard TBH I always thought the cabinets had a lot more more going for them than what was inside by miles which beyond being old is quite unremarkable IMO but good quality for what they are .
I replaced them with JBL towers with 2 -12" woofers in a 4 way desighn and never looked back beyond this thread .
OFC those towers are long gone and the THX pm3 approved JBL large midfield monitors and subs have taken center stage here . (those are deadly accurate )
but not cheap .
I could see the old girls with better modern parts inside or a spare room nostalgia configuration maybe even with a tube amp but critical listening no way .
IMO none of those old Warfies or generally old speakers in general with some ( a few) exceptions of course are up to that for what we have today .
I like to think of them as pleasant ,polite intellegent educated and well traveled old gals like a faviorite auntie but not daily driver hotties or muscle heads ..
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Oh man, are you ever going to hear it from GangTwanger, lol!:yes::yes:
I'm anticipating that I may have to leave the room in a hurry
OTOH some EDM or DuB step or bass head anything or anthing outside of polite 60's rock can seriusly hurt those old gals especially all that in digital my W70D's could barely take Fleetwwod MAC on vinyl at 32wpc they were getting taxed at any elevated levels but they sounded plenty OK and all just not hot mids and highs or muscle head bass and NO impact bass they are more polite than anything IMO and my 80wpc SX980 [not even cranked] fried them (in a few minutes) so it wasnt a lack of power
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Maybe I'm too nice to my speaks - or the neighbors - but my Ds have taken everything I've thrown at them with grace. Do they dig as deep as the downstairs system (Polk monitor 70s with an Outlaw LFM-1) no... But they are possibly more enjoyable to listen to and more revealing. Downstairs is more HT oriented, upstairs is more music oriented the good news is there's room in this world for both! I still think the W70Ds are the best speakers I've ever had; there may be better out there and I'll just say if there are sell them to me I'm ready! (budget willing of course... That is the problem)
Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk
Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk
easycraig
Super Member
I use my 70's for only critical listening and absolutely love them.... sure, they may come up up thin on some recordings, but that's why I have preamp with tonal controls. As for volume, I can barely get a quarter way on the volume knob.... without having to back down (plenty of noise will come out of them if you crank them). Last listener I had over (during 4th of July) said it sounded like he was listening to music with headphones on..... his exact words were " no need for headphones with these speakers " - to each is own.... I think placement and the room is just important as the speakers themselves.... and that goes for all speakers....
-just my 2cents... ec : )
-just my 2cents... ec : )
Depends on your frame of refence and music sources they can be fine within thier limitations but they are not all that accurate a lot of that vintage stuff wasnt while some of the JBL stuff and Altec stuff tended to be more flat and accurate.OTOH you could do a lot worse than Vintage Warfies new or vintage
Vintage Warfies maybe not so hot on a 24 bit flat master of Metallica or EDM or DuB step or any number of things today a tube amp or vinyl wouldent handle well anyway .
Speaking of vintage I had some model 19's that would probably be excellent with modern powered subs today. I have some big vintage 3 way EV's like that
and the horns are smooth and detailed beyond belief (you never heard clean detailed midrange like that outside of a horn ) those are on another level than anything Warfdale ever made or a lot of speakers today and then including a $13,000 pair of K horns . .
I had my W70Ds for a very long time even had them re coned with the same type of cloth (or what ever it was ) surrounds and recapped the x overs and had the alnico magnets re charged .
OTOH 2 of these THX pm3 mixing and mastering monitors on a likewise approved 800wpc amp with a couple of refernce powered subs take things to another level altogether they sound good here
. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR6332L
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Hi everyone!
I'm of the camp that believes simply the age of the speaker has no bearing on whether it's a gem to be coveted and left front and center in ones living room, or sold off. My inspiration for this project was what I heard from my Super 12 project. If you spent some time with them, you'd understand where I was coming from. If these particular W70 speakers weren't all that great in 1962 or '63, then they're the same today. I was hoping for better, but I had to see for myself.
I'm perfectly okay with them not being what I'd dreamed. That's what this hobby is all about, fun and experimentation. I will most certainly play with them some more, I'm not done with them yet. And I will never buy new drivers for the enclosures, that's not going to happen.
Biggles
I'm of the camp that believes simply the age of the speaker has no bearing on whether it's a gem to be coveted and left front and center in ones living room, or sold off. My inspiration for this project was what I heard from my Super 12 project. If you spent some time with them, you'd understand where I was coming from. If these particular W70 speakers weren't all that great in 1962 or '63, then they're the same today. I was hoping for better, but I had to see for myself.
I'm perfectly okay with them not being what I'd dreamed. That's what this hobby is all about, fun and experimentation. I will most certainly play with them some more, I'm not done with them yet. And I will never buy new drivers for the enclosures, that's not going to happen.
Biggles
GD70
Lunatic Member
Yup, all part of the fun, and sometimes disappointment.
You can shelve them in the garage, some time down the road some drivers may materialize and swap em out, they may sound better, maybe not. You got plenty to listen to, so no biggie and you had fun working on them.
I'm of this camp. The curbed Advents I found are in the garage. They will stay there. At this point I have no room or interest in restoring them, maybe because of the "utility" vinyl clad cabs, but not inspired. I would like to hear them some day though, but I hate those cabs!
You can shelve them in the garage, some time down the road some drivers may materialize and swap em out, they may sound better, maybe not. You got plenty to listen to, so no biggie and you had fun working on them.
I'm of this camp. The curbed Advents I found are in the garage. They will stay there. At this point I have no room or interest in restoring them, maybe because of the "utility" vinyl clad cabs, but not inspired. I would like to hear them some day though, but I hate those cabs!
Yeah, vinyl ain't cool. Guts are handy.
I've got an idea to try out, just for fun. Hopefully this week I can put it into action and see if it changes anything for the better.
Biggles
I wouldent mind any number of unremarkable ordinary sort of sporty vintage cars and H.T. coupes incuding some of the Bel Airs and Impalas I owned just not as a daily driver in todays world thats all .
I would love to have a restored MGA driver also . Those were great looking cars and fun fair weather drivers depite the pedestrian mechanicals ,rust issues and dodgy electrics . FWIW I've never owned one but had quite a few of them apart and put them back together (trust me you dont want to put a clutch in one or a Healy either )
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Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
On a semi-related note, I found this image back from my Super 12 project. The factory tested mine down to 38 cycles/Hz. At least I believe cycles and Hz are interchangeable. That's pretty darned awesome for a full range driver made back in 1959. Of course this will have changed since I used a modern foam surround replacement.
Biggles
Probably not the case, but wouldn't it be a trip if "R" was Raymond Cooke? He WAS working there as Technical Director at the time (late '55 to mid '61). The book I bought has a few company pictures from various divisions with names listed, so maybe I can narrow it down at some point. That book has at least one picture of Cooke's signature, so I can at least compare the R's and get that one out of the way (And I'll see if it lists the W70's cabinet volume/displacement... It has it listed for the W60, that much I know).
OK.. Now, what did he say? ... Lemme' at 'em ... I'll tear 'em limb from limb.
Just kidding (For the moment
).Kidding.... Sorta'.
Arrggh... Sorry about that... Can't seem to shake the sarcasm bug tonight.
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