ELECTROCOMPANIENT

[Tin Bird]

No offense taken...I agree w you that room treatment is needed. Unfortunately, my room is my den, so I can't do much. I think it is probably the walls themselves. I live in an older 1970's colonial-style house and the walls are the brown wood paneling popular in that era. The floor is carpeted, but of course, there are windows...etc. Would have a recommendation for a smallish treatment that could be placed say behind the speakers in an unobtrusive way that could help w brightness? I also totally agree about cables and have experimented quite a bit. I stay away from Audioquest for that reason. I would add that Polk speakers are typically described as being "bright" to "on the forward side of neutral" and Wharfedales are described as being "warm" and "laid back", so I think the Wharefdales should be an improvement in that area. I actually do not find the Polks overly bright, just sibilant on the "S's". I had a pair of Wharfedale Dentons in the past that were not sibilant at all, hence trying the brand again. If you read through all of my posts...even prior to this thread, you'll see that is hasn't just been speakers, but also electronics that have been changed. I initially was on the typical audiophile quest of possible sound I can afford. Somewhere along the way, as I've noted, I realized that my ear problems would preclude that ever becoming reality because when the resolution goes up to a certain level..bright or not..my ears cannot handle it and I actually get vertigo and have super loud tinnitus that is worsened. So, now the goal is best possible sound that I can afford that doesn't trigger my ear health issues. I think that I am sticking w the McIntosh because A. It's McIntosh! , B. I have tried all sorts of class D amps and for some reason my ears don't like them C. I think class A/B is more comfortable on the ears in general...I had a Rotel A12 prior to the McIntosh that I enjoyed. So, if the Whafedales don't work out, I may very well go back to the system that I had prior to this one because my ears were comfortable..and just accept that I cannot push any higher on the sound chain. That was the Rotel A12 paired with Definitive Technology D11 bookshelf speakers. Quite a good paring. Anyway...thank you for continuing to post on this thread..I appreciate your thoughts and ideas and welcome more of them. I'm sure it's a tad frustrating to follow my pathway, but I assure you, I'm not any nuttier than your average middle-aged audiophile with health concerns.

 

[GChief]

If you don’t have room treatment that is the first thing you need to address

QFT... I always get the room as good as possible first before I mess with gear.

Would have a recommendation for a smallish treatment

It can be done with with pillows, moving furniture around, or different furniture you already have in the house in or out of the space. You just need to play with it. Since it seems like you have never messed with room treatments I believe there are inexpensive mics and programs that will help you get a room straight. Hopefully someone with will chime in on those options.

 

[DesertRatt]

What an astounding odyssey! I'm thinking 1/ Ear protection; 2/Equalizer.

 

[Audiofreak71]

No offense taken...I agree w you that room treatment is needed. Unfortunately, my room is my den, so I can't do much. I think it is probably the walls themselves. I live in an older 1970's colonial-style house and the walls are the brown wood paneling popular in that era. The floor is carpeted, but of course, there are windows...etc. Would have a recommendation for a smallish treatment that could be placed say behind the speakers in an unobtrusive way that could help w brightness? I also totally agree about cables and have experimented quite a bit. I stay away from Audioquest for that reason. I would add that Polk speakers are typically described as being "bright" to "on the forward side of neutral" and Wharfedales are described as being "warm" and "laid back", so I think the Wharefdales should be an improvement in that area. I actually do not find the Polks overly bright, just sibilant on the "S's". I had a pair of Wharfedale Dentons in the past that were not sibilant at all, hence trying the brand again. If you read through all of my posts...even prior to this thread, you'll see that is hasn't just been speakers, but also electronics that have been changed. I initially was on the typical audiophile quest of possible sound I can afford. Somewhere along the way, as I've noted, I realized that my ear problems would preclude that ever becoming reality because when the resolution goes up to a certain level..bright or not..my ears cannot handle it and I actually get vertigo and have super loud tinnitus that is worsened. So, now the goal is best possible sound that I can afford that doesn't trigger my ear health issues. I think that I am sticking w the McIntosh because A. It's McIntosh! , B. I have tried all sorts of class D amps and for some reason my ears don't like them C. I think class A/B is more comfortable on the ears in general...I had a Rotel A12 prior to the McIntosh that I enjoyed. So, if the Whafedales don't work out, I may very well go back to the system that I had prior to this one because my ears were comfortable..and just accept that I cannot push any higher on the sound chain. That was the Rotel A12 paired with Definitive Technology D11 bookshelf speakers. Quite a good paring. Anyway...thank you for continuing to post on this thread..I appreciate your thoughts and ideas and welcome more of them. I'm sure it's a tad frustrating to follow my pathway, but I assure you, I'm not any nuttier than your average middle-aged audiophile with health concerns.

Well I respect your opinions and what you like is what you like . However, just because it’s Mcintosh don’t make it the top crop , it is possible that you can’t take the Mcintosh sound and that is very possible, 2nd it would be much cheaper to get your room tamed , my system is in my den /living room whatever they call it and I have the whole thing treated tastefully where the wife likes it and it’s doing it’s job with keeping reflections down as well as taming any brightness I might have . 3rd I have went through many cables before I found the ones that worked for my system and room . I know you have heard the word Synergy on here and it is true and being you have very sensitive ears it more so applies to you with getting your system correct and to do that you can’t just buy a Mcintosh and some speakers and hope for the best , it takes work . Maybe a tube amp or a hybrid tube/ss amp would work for you , I have a hybrid tube/ss setup and it is very easy on the ears , I can listen 24/7 with zero fatigue and I have tinnitus from 20 plus years in the Army (ranges , deployments ) etc etc . So with that said it’s possible you have the proper amp and speakers right now it’s just that they need further refinement through cables and most definitely room treatment.

Here’s an example and there are lots of different types you can get .

4pcs. Sound Absorption-Diffuse Acoustic Panel «Wave» for rec.studio | Wood laminated: (Oak) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LH8JPRF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KlF0CbJPWYCMY


Audiofreak71

 

[Tin Bird]

Well I respect your opinions and what you like is what you like . However, just because it’s Mcintosh don’t make it the top crop , it is possible that you can’t take the Mcintosh sound and that is very possible, 2nd it would be much cheaper to get your room tamed , my system is in my den /living room whatever they call it and I have the whole thing treated tastefully where the wife likes it and it’s doing it’s job with keeping reflections down as well as taming any brightness I might have . 3rd I have went through many cables before I found the ones that worked for my system and room . I know you have heard the word Synergy on here and it is true and being you have very sensitive ears it more so applies to you with getting your system correct and to do that you can’t just buy a Mcintosh and some speakers and hope for the best , it takes work . Maybe a tube amp or a hybrid tube/ss amp would work for you , I have a hybrid tube/ss setup and it is very easy on the ears , I can listen 24/7 with zero fatigue and I have tinnitus from 20 plus years in the Army (ranges , deployments ) etc etc . So with that said it’s possible you have the proper amp and speakers right now it’s just that they need further refinement through cables and most definitely room treatment.

Here’s an example and there are lots of different types you can get .

4pcs. Sound Absorption-Diffuse Acoustic Panel «Wave» for rec.studio | Wood laminated: (Oak) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LH8JPRF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KlF0CbJPWYCMY


Audiofreak71

Thanks a bunch for your thoughts! I will investigate this for sure. Tinnitus...ugh...I would call him an "old friend", but certainly friend is the wrong word. My condition is called Meniere's disease. It has to do w probs w the fluids in the inner ear. I have had it for going on 20+ years now. It was the reason that I had to give up drumming in rock bands. Couldn't take the volume level. Anyway...I have thought that perhaps I should bite the bullet and try the tube route. Tubes obviously are known to be warm in general, so perhaps I should give them a go. I received the Wharfedale Diamonds 225's this afternoon and have them breaking in as we speak over in the den. We shall see.

 

[Tin Bird]

What an astounding odyssey! I'm thinking 1/ Ear protection; 2/Equalizer.

Maybe third part scotch? Just a thought... ;-)

 

[Audiofreak71]

Thanks a bunch for your thoughts! I will investigate this for sure. Tinnitus...ugh...I would call him an "old friend", but certainly friend is the wrong word. My condition is called Meniere's disease. It has to do w probs w the fluids in the inner ear. I have had it for going on 20+ years now. It was the reason that I had to give up drumming in rock bands. Couldn't take the volume level. Anyway...I have thought that perhaps I should bite the bullet and try the tube route. Tubes obviously are known to be warm in general, so perhaps I should give them a go. I received the Wharfedale Diamonds 225's this afternoon and have them breaking in as we speak over in the den. We shall see.

Good luck with the wharfedales , I hope they give you the balance your looking for . If not then maybe take a look into room treatments, cables etc.

Audiofreak71

 

[DesertRatt]

Thanks a bunch for your thoughts! I will investigate this for sure. Tinnitus...ugh...I would call him an "old friend", but certainly friend is the wrong word. My condition is called Meniere's disease. It has to do w probs w the fluids in the inner ear. I have had it for going on 20+ years now. It was the reason that I had to give up drumming in rock bands. Couldn't take the volume level. Anyway...I have thought that perhaps I should bite the bullet and try the tube route. Tubes obviously are known to be warm in general, so perhaps I should give them a go. I received the Wharfedale Diamonds 225's this afternoon and have them breaking in as we speak over in the den. We shall see.

My friend has Meniere's, and he plays guitar with a garage band. He had to get the kind of ear plugs that Rock musicians use to cut out high dynamic sound, but pass regular sound. He loves them because it allows him to keep playing. Not sure if you have every tried them?

 

[Tin Bird]

My friend has Meniere's, and he plays guitar with a garage band. He had to get the kind of ear plugs that Rock musicians use to cut out high dynamic sound, but pass regular sound. He loves them because it allows him to keep playing. Not sure if you have every tried them?

Yeah. I am actually able to tolerate moderate noise most days, and if I really want to, I can put on ear plugs and bash away. My son play drums now, so I occasionally go up to his room and play. But, I gave them up 20 years ago and have moved on at this point. If I did want to play, I would look into the specialty ear plugs. I am aware of them. Honestly, I feel grateful that my ears still allow me to listen to good sounding music at moderate levels. My passion is now hi-fi sound and I am happy with that.

 

[Tin Bird]

Good luck with the wharfedales , I hope they give you the balance your looking for . If not then maybe take a look into room treatments, cables etc.

Audiofreak71

Thanks man...I will update as they break in...first blush, they are certainly more "laid back" than the Polks...but that could change after some hours.

 

[GChief]

Also play with room treatments. It doesn’t need to be wads of foam on the walls and ceiling.

 

[Tin Bird]

Welp, initial report not good. Wharefdales sound dull as dishwater... am changing tact...updates after changes made.

 

[GChief]

Welp, initial report not good. Wharefdales sound dull as dishwater... am changing tact...updates after changes made.

Then IMO you have something else going on.

 

[Tin Bird]

I just think that the laid back nature of the McIntosh paired w the laid back nature of the Wharfedales is simply too much "laid back". As noted before, did not have an issue w the Polk S15's overall sound profile (i.e. they weren't overall too "bright"), they just had too much sibilance emphasis. In addition, I am feeling like the MXA70 is too limiting in that it takes a particular speaker profile to match it, it only has 50 watts, and the manual states clearly that the unit is meant only for 8 ohm speakers. The 6 ohm and 4 ohm speakers that I have tried w it all sound vague, distant, thin, and muddy (as Audiofreak suggested). So...I have decided to return back to the system I started with that I really, really liked and give up on the quest to improve on it. It was a fool's errand to begin with! Going back to the Rotel A12 matched w the Def Tech D11's. That system sounded great, if a tad on the polite side...but polite is better than sibilance and it did not bother my ear issues. Once all the pieces are back in place, I will have gotten some of my hard earned $ back (by selling the McIntosh) and I will have a system that I can be happy with. I'm gettin off the train. Been fun, but frustrating and expensive!

 

[Tin Bird]

I am back. As usual, plans changed. Not going to go back to the Rotel/Def Tech pairing. I have decided to go w Monitor Audio Studio bookshelf speakers and am now considering integrateds to match them with.
My short list:
NAD D3045
Sony TA-A1ES
Hegel H90

I am leaning towards starting w the NAD. Thoughts?

 

[Tin Bird]

Well well well...unless something unexpected occurs...i.e. major change in sound profile after break-in or my ears decide they actually can't tolerate the sound, I really, finally think I have a winner here! The NAD D3045 integrated (which I already knew was amazing) paired with Monitor Audio Studio bookshelf speakers. It is a very unique sound I am hearing...detailed...but not at all bright, more bass than I expected (more than the Def Tech D11s!), a bit of a rounded feel instead of etched or bright. I think I really like this. Plus, the speakers look cool as heck! After all of this time, effort, searching, and $, I am very hopeful to have finally found my happy place. I have hi-fi sound that my sensitive ears can tolerate. Color me happy (and hope that there is no change...famous last words...I know!) Wish me luck fellas! ;-)

 

[Audiofreak71]

Well well well...unless something unexpected occurs...i.e. major change in sound profile after break-in or my ears decide they actually can't tolerate the sound, I really, finally think I have a winner here! The NAD D3045 integrated (which I already knew was amazing) paired with Monitor Audio Studio bookshelf speakers. It is a very unique sound I am hearing...detailed...but not at all bright, more bass than I expected (more than the Def Tech D11s!), a bit of a rounded feel instead of etched or bright. I think I really like this. Plus, the speakers look cool as heck! After all of this time, effort, searching, and $, I am very hopeful to have finally found my happy place. I have hi-fi sound that my sensitive ears can tolerate. Color me happy (and hope that there is no change...famous last words...I know!) Wish me luck fellas! ;-)

That’s interesting that you don’t find the monitor audios bright as they are known for being that way I had a pair of RS8’s and they could be very bright . But it could be that your monitors brightness are offset by your nad amp? Who knows , as long as it’s working for you . Hope you enjoy this setup for awhile .

Audiofreak71

 

[Tin Bird]

Thank you man. Yeah, I think it is the NAD amp for sure. It is a bit on the dark and thick side, so the Studios are not bright at all....only a few days in, so that could change, but as of right now, I can honestly say I am enjoying my music as much as I ever have and so far at least, my ears are hanging in. The Studios are pretty dang unique sounding...super detailed without the brightness/harshness/sibilance.

 

[Audiofreak71]

Thank you man. Yeah, I think it is the NAD amp for sure. It is a bit on the dark and thick side, so the Studios are not bright at all....only a few days in, so that could change, but as of right now, I can honestly say I am enjoying my music as much as I ever have and so far at least, my ears are hanging in. The Studios are pretty dang unique sounding...super detailed without the brightness/harshness/sibilance.

Well look nice with the ribbon tweeters , clean looking .

Audiofreak71

 

[Tin Bird]

Yes. And...the wife said when she saw them, "You finally got a pair of speakers that look great!" Always helpful! Just got up and feel fine. I have the usual ear symptoms, but no additional problems from what was a fairly extensive day of music listening. The ribbon tweeter is nice and airy...sounds are all there...in some tracks hearing things I've never heard before, but like I said, the uppers are smooth, almost silky in their presentation. They actually do kind've remind me of the Def Tech D11s...except, the uppers are smother, there is lower bass, and the soundstage is not quite as wide. Very happy w this setup so far... Honestly, I was considering giving up and buying a cheap ass Bose bluetooth speaker and being done w it. Grateful that I did not! I certainly have learned a lot about system matching over the past few years.