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Electrolytic Capacitor Shoot-Out

Now this is interesting! :D Looking forward to your impressions of the Silmic II, I have those coming for a friend's 2245 right now.

Even if Silmic II comes out on top, there's some values you just can't get. That's what I like about FC, wide selection of values.

Yes when I have needed them there is always an FC in the value you need. And a lot of times you have 2 choices, you will have a small diameter that is tall, or you will have a lower profile. So not only is almost every value available, you can get what you need fit wise. The Silmics do tend also to run larger in size.
 
Silmic II up and running!

The Silmic II are in and running.

Here is a comparison pic of the 470uf 63V cap Panasonic FC vs the Silmic II, the Silmic is much larger.




Here they are installed.




Will follow up in next post with initial impressions:

Something to know: Panasonic FC is a "General Purpose cap"
Elna Silmic II is "designed for Audio"
 
Silmic II Initial listen

Well right off the bat I think we can dispel the common practice of put some decent caps in the “Power Supply” and use the best caps in the “Signal Path.” I would venture to say put the best caps you can in the Power Supply, and also your main filter caps and that will be 80% of the battle.

This is an initial listen and my first impressions.

Silmic II:

These caps sound very musical. The sound stage is wide and deep. Vocals have body and weight and you can hear all the small inner detail and low-level detail. The low bass is all there, compared to the FC’s it sounds like someone switched off the subsonic filter. The sound is very liquid and “tube like” and oh so smooth in the high end but all is there. You can hear room and wall reflections on good recordings. Trying to contain myself but these sound gorgeous, very involving, very lovely and if the Cerafine’s or Nichicon’s sound any better then this I will go nuts. They are also keeping in the spirit of the original Marantz sound and kicking it up to another level.

Here are some of my thoughts that came to mind while listening: super smooth and transparent, smooth liquid and "tube like," Mids and vocals nice and fat sounding with nice body and dimensionality, this is high end sound!



I will report back in the 7 areas as I did with the FC’s. The Cerafine’s and Nichicon’s are also in house now.
 
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Well right off the bat I think we can dispel the common practice of put some decent caps in the “Power Supply” and use the best caps in the “Signal Path.”
Hey now, you can say that, but some of us folks in that royal "we" cannot dispel anything without measured differences in output or some sort of elaborate blind test. :thmbsp: I still may have to try this myself, though. Btw, did you measure the capacitance of these capacitors?
 
Hey now, you can say that, but some of us folks in that royal "we" cannot dispel anything without measured differences in output or some sort of elaborate blind test. :thmbsp: I still may have to try this myself, though. Btw, did you measure the capacitance of these capacitors?

As you say, I'm also ready to try them. Actually, they 'sound' compelling.
If we're not careful, we'll drive up the price on these caps. On the other hand, maybe other manufacturers will do what they can to compete.
Don't you love technology. Especially useful in our 30 year old equipment.
How 'ironical'.
 
I just tried some Silmic IIs in the phono section of a 2245. I like them, fine sounding caps for sure.
 
Yes I did see that, see below my post about it.

I'm thoroughly excited to see how this all turns out. I'm currently deciding on what to use for everything in recapping my 2230. While investigating I came across this, pretty interesting I thought.
http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html

Why did I use Elna Silmic II in the signal path:

1. Here is a link check it out:

http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/...apacitors.html

2. I owned a Threshold S150 amp at one time, designed by Nelson Pass: He seems to think Silmic II sounds best and recommends them. (google it)

3. There is a rebuilder advertised below on this page who also likes them.

4. When I called many who sell caps and questioned them, lets call them XYZ, they recommended the Silmic II also.

5. My own ears, replaced them in my 2220B and was pretty blown away. My system is pretty optimized so I can here even a small differences in my system. I got to the point where I stopped listening to the equipment and was listening to the music and hanging on to every note.

***I have a 2220B that is totally original, and a 2220B that is restored with ungraded caps etc, When time permits I would like to do a detailed review and go over the differences.

Again this is only my opinion and there are others on this forum with way more technical knowledge and repair expertise then I will ever have, but I do have a decent ear and like what I am hearing.

I really wanted to do this also because he left out the Elna Cerafine and did a lessor Nichicon, and that is why I am doing the KZ's. And I also wanted to actually put them in a Marantz unit.
 
Silmic II Listening Impressions

Elna Silmic II Listening Impressions:


Low Bass: Cued up and put on The Sound Track from E.T. and played “Abandoned and Pursued.” There are 2 low frequency pulses that are pretty much subterranean, with the Silmic II’s you hear it all and more impressively you feel it, air is being moved you feel it travel on the floor towards you and then up your legs, very impressed by this. When playing Dafos, “The Gates of Dafos” the huge drum called “The Monster” falls on stage huge metallic sounding fall, you can hear it hit you can hear the reverberation of the sound off of the walls and you can feel the wave of low frequency air as it moves out into the room. This is pretty mind blowing for the price paid, Marantz 2220B 65.00 off craigslist, Silmic II caps 14.00!

Bass: The Silmics have a small euphoric bump in the upper bass to lower mids, I do not think I would describe it as a coloration because it just moves it out towards you closer in the sound stage it just really excels here. On Copland’s Appalachian Spring, on the song, “Rodeo,” there are some nice drum thwacks, you can hear the naturalness of the skin and it has drive and slam with impact. The bass is awesome and has that “air” and “bloom” of tubes that you will love. On Rickie Lee Jones, the song, “Easy Money,” it opens up with an upright bass playing by itself, you can hear the finger rubbing over the strings and the sound will rattle things if you turn it up loud enough.

Mids/Vocals: The vocals are huge and fat and oh so tube like. The vocals have body and are very smooth and seductive sounding. The mids have that brazen glow of tube sound, very liquid. The mids ooze high end. On Gino Vanelli, the song, “Getting High,” the vocals are huge and have real body; you get the effect if you close your eyes of the singer standing between the speakers.

Highs: Very extended and sweet sounding. If you hate highs that are strident or shrill, you will love the sound of these. On Pink Floyd, “The Wall” the song, “Another Brick in the Wall Part I,” the crashing cymbals that come down are dead on, sounding very realistic, a lot of energy is conveyed as they are hit.

Solid State or Tube like sound:
I think you already get my drift here. If I had to close my eyes and you put on Joni Mitchell, “Wild Things Run Fast,” or Dire Straits, “Love over Gold,” I would be inclined to guess tubes. The Silmic II’s have that smooth liquid sound, that openness in the midrange and the dimensionality of tubes, an excellent accomplishment.

Soundstage:
Deep and wide, and not only that image wise instruments appear in space and are rock solid in their location. Again sounding like a nice tube amp. On the song “While my Heart is Still Beating,” (Roxy Music) the opening is a wide and deep expanse and it is conveyed very nicely.

Low Level Inner Detail: Although these caps are smooth and liquid you are not missing any detail they are not rolled off in the highs. On the song “Private Investigations,” you
Can hear the whole panting breath sound which starts coming in mid way in the song, on a lot of systems you will not even know it is there.


Rhythm/Drive: Yes while listening to these your toe will tap they will draw you into the music and involve you in the music, which says to me these are sounding pretty damn close to sounding like real music.

Capsule: The Silmics are very tube like and I like that about them. They are smooth, liquid and have that tube bloom and glow. They have the ability to give the music dimensionality in your sound space, which at this level of money is mind blowing.
 
Here are the Elna Cerifine!



In and running! And they look very sharp! Spelled wrong above it is Cerafine.




Boy I am loving the Silmic II, but on initial listening to these, (they are said to be very Black Gate-ish) my choice is not going to be easy. They are very clean and neutral they image they have soundstage width and depth. The midrange is in your face and the high end is an open window-no veils here very impressive. Bass is taught and tuneful. Stay tuned!
 
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Capacitor Guide

I wanted to post this so it was in one place, some of you are getting ready to recap and so I wanted to get this out there. The Nichicons are next.

Electrolytic Capacitor Guide


General Sound Characteristics

Panasonic FC: Very neutral sounding across the board, some what recessed in the high end and rolling off the lowest octave. Midrange is somewhat thin sounding with very little body in the vocals. Soundstage imaging width and depth are 2D.

Strong point: very neutral
Weak point: 2D sound and lack of midrange body, flat sounding image wise.
Describe with one word-Neutral


Elna Silmic II: These sound very smooth liquid and tube-like. The midrange has massive amounts of body, and air and dimensionality around vocals and instruments that fall in this range. The high end is very sweet and smooth, the lowest octave is very tight and has plenty of low energy drive-these will move air in your room.

*******If you love upper bass and lower midrange you will love these, which is were they shine.

Strong point: Luscious and tube like midrange, excellent sense of body and air to the sound. With these in the Marantz unit you have “high end sound.” They will have you tapping your toe very involving.

Weak point: This is not really a weak point but compared to the Cerafine’s the high end of the Silmics are not as detailed. Believe me there is nothing missing here, but the Cerafine high end is very detailed. (What I have read about both of these online is that the Silmics were more open in the high end I totally disagree with that.)

Describe with one word-Lush

Elna Cerafine: The midrange is really pushed to the front with the Cerafine’s, vocals now sit out in front of the speakers into the room. The upper mids and high end have what I would call an open window to the music. Let me explain, there is a small jazz band playing in a building and you are standing outside the window listening, you can hear the music quite well, now you open the window now you can really hear it, there is nothing between you and the music. That is how the Cerafine’s sound in the upper midrange and out to the high end, I have not really heard better. They better the Silmics in 2 area’s and both have to do with detail, the high end of the Cerafine’s are just a tad more open and detailed giving you an even closer sound to the real thing. The other is in low bass detail and articulation, they are not as strong in the lowest octave as the Silmics but what is there is very detailed. The Cerafine’s do not have the lush smooth tube sound of the Silmics but sound like the best that solid state can offer.

Strong point: An open window to the music upper mids to high end.

Weak point: do not want to say yet, need to give them some more time to break in.

Describe with one word-Crisp

I am getting to the point where I could see for example putting the Silmics in the Power Supply and then putting Cerafine's on the phono board, that will be next when the Nichicons go through their paces.
 
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