AnalogDigit
Realistic fan.
Very nice review and thank for the link. This is helpful since I'm starting to recap and restore a Sherwood HP 2000 amplifier.
Electrolytic Capacitor Shoot-Out
- Thread starter patfont
- Start date
Another source for Elna cerafines,SilmicII's ,Nichicon muse and some Elna tonerex.
http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=72
Digikey has SilmicII's,Mouser has a good selection of Nichicon "MUSE"
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Nichicon KZ
Here are the Nichicon KZ
In and running!
I had to use one FG (Fine Gold) There was no 470uf 63V in KZ only goes up to 50V.
Initial Impressions: The KZ/FG are very analytical and clean sounding. They are probably the most accurate and natural yet across the board. Unlike the FC's they image well and go all the way down in the bass and have no high frequency roll off. There is a small problem in the lower mids they sound a bit scooped out here. I do want to break them in well before I commit to this though. They are not in the "tube like" catagory like the Silmics, and they do not have the detail and low bass articulation of the Cerafines.
Here are the Nichicon KZ
In and running!
I had to use one FG (Fine Gold) There was no 470uf 63V in KZ only goes up to 50V.
Initial Impressions: The KZ/FG are very analytical and clean sounding. They are probably the most accurate and natural yet across the board. Unlike the FC's they image well and go all the way down in the bass and have no high frequency roll off. There is a small problem in the lower mids they sound a bit scooped out here. I do want to break them in well before I commit to this though. They are not in the "tube like" catagory like the Silmics, and they do not have the detail and low bass articulation of the Cerafines.
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From ELNA's website:
http://www.elna-america.com/distributor_list.php?key=48&location=Pennsylvania
They do list Mouser Electronics as an ELNA Distributor.
I do not know what they may actually stock, however.
Might be worth a phone inquiry.
The majority of Elna caps sold by Mouser are surface mount.
http://ca.mouser.com/Elna/Passive-C...um-Electrolytic-Capacitors/_/N-75hqtZ1z0zldo/
ChrisMarantz
Super Member
I've been following this thread since it began. I find the results interesting. One question that comes to mind while I read Patfont's descriptions of each type of capacitor's effect on the units sound is, why do we use "tube like" as a yardstick to measure or describe our solid state receivers by?
If I wanted a "tube like" sound, I would use a tube amplifier. I don't find that members in the tube forum are trying to make their amplifiers sound "solid state like".
If I wanted a "tube like" sound, I would use a tube amplifier. I don't find that members in the tube forum are trying to make their amplifiers sound "solid state like".
Of course not. Wouldn't it be cheaper to get solid state as a whole rather than trying to make tube sound solid state? I know I wouldn't.
It is cheaper to get solid state to sound like tube (as much as possible) than to get an actual tube amp.
This is a great question. The answer for me is this. The ability to throw out a wide and deep sound stage and to get the feel of air and dimension around a vocal or an instrument is a hall mark of a good tube amp. They also sound liquid smooth. I would say a good popular starting point for this would be an updated and reworked Dynaco ST-70. You can get a nice one for between $400-$600. You can get into a Marantz Receiver like the one I am using for this test $65 off craigslist. And you can get pretty darn close but without the transparency in the mids of the Dynaco. So there is always the tube and solid state debate. When I write my final conclusion I am very keen to that subject and I will recommend to who each Capacitor would be attractive to so thanks for the question and stay tuned.
Update on the Elna Cerafine's
As far as my listening is concerned I am not really going to commit to any real short comings for these caps. It is obvious that the mids are pushed up a bit and that the high end has a gentle rise. The high end is not shrill or strident but clean and very detailed. The small mid bump will bring a vocal just to the front of the speakers. You may or may not like this, I really enjoyed them and really did not want to remove them from the receiver. A real jaw dropper was when I played the song "Reunion" off of the Album Dafos (Reference Recordings) It really made me sit up and take notice, a very very real and convincing presentation! Just finishing up with the Nichicons and will work on getting a conclusion up.
As far as my listening is concerned I am not really going to commit to any real short comings for these caps. It is obvious that the mids are pushed up a bit and that the high end has a gentle rise. The high end is not shrill or strident but clean and very detailed. The small mid bump will bring a vocal just to the front of the speakers. You may or may not like this, I really enjoyed them and really did not want to remove them from the receiver. A real jaw dropper was when I played the song "Reunion" off of the Album Dafos (Reference Recordings) It really made me sit up and take notice, a very very real and convincing presentation! Just finishing up with the Nichicons and will work on getting a conclusion up.
Of course not. Wouldn't it be cheaper to get solid state as a whole rather than trying to make tube sound solid state? I know I wouldn't.
It is cheaper to get solid state to sound like tube (as much as possible) than to get an actual tube amp.
I think tube amps sound MOSFET-like..:scratch2:
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I think MOSFET amps are OTL like.
Well..There ya go.Thinking again! Get back to your caps..
People are on pins and needles just waiting for your synopsis.
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ChrisMarantz
Super Member
This I agree with completely. Resistors are probably the most overlooked component during a refurbishment. Unless they are burnt out or the source of a serious problem in a circuit, they are mostly ignored. This is probably because it's very time consuming to measure the value out of circuit and replace the bad ones. I have begun to check all resistors as part of the rebuild process. I have found that it seems common that 25-30 percent of resistors are out of spec in many models. Precision resistors don't seem drift as often as carbon comp resistors do.
I recently rebuild two model 16 amplifiers and in each amp (4 total) about 50% of the resistors were out of spec.
Using low noise metal film or metal foil resistors are a good choice for replacement of CC resistors.
Oh, yes I did look over a model 7 schematic :thmbsp:
Here is my pre board in my 1070:
1% metal film resistors, foil caps at audio coupling locations=TRANSPARENCY
IMHO: The real game changer are the Power Supply Caps, repeat after me Power Supply Caps. Changing them will change the sound and about 75%. The resisters give you transparency. I am not a technician I am only going by what I hear and I am sure some of you have way more experience at this then I do.